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U/W Control Help


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks
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kfcman



Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 733

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

more land
24 minimum
control can not miss land drops
especially UW bcuz of the mana intensive finishers
u need urzas factory and sacred mesa
uncounterable win conditions and makin plenty of chumpers is good
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm...

It looks a bit look new Draw-Go

Why don't you have a way to blow up the world?

Why don't you have four hussar?

Why don't have one or more Urza's Factory?

I always try to ask myself three things.

1. How can I stop a loss to fast decks?
A Wrath of God

2. How can I stop a loss vs Control decks?
A Court Hussar

3. How can I win without tapping out on my turn?
A Urza's Factory

Now I know that there are a lot more ways to do this. I am only showing one way. I just hope that I can help you get in the direction that you wanted to go in.
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Peiare17g



Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks like a pretty solid U/W controll deck. the big things i think you are missing in this deck are wrath of god and think twice. if you need to know what to take out it would probably be tefari and cancel. tefri only goes in a blue deck witha decent amount of creatures, cancel i have found to be a bit slow and could be replaced with another hard counter like rewind.
one more thing, you should think about tefris moat. it stops controll's biggest threat, Gruul/Zoo or any other very fast aggro
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cut the repeal, Chancery, and Vision.

Add
1 Wispers
1 Urza'a Factory
1 Plains
1 Condemm
2 Flagstones
4 Cancel or Rewind.

I skip the Rune Snag and go for Cancel and Rewind...
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Apos



Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 757

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

R3wind wrote:


2. How can I stop a loss vs Control decks?
A Court Hussar

Muhahaha good joke

but i got to agree the deck needs wrath of god
and more lands

also if u play warth then cut sum islands for plain (and i mean the basic ones)
cause blood moon makes u cry and steals ur white


also i am pro acentrall visions
u talk about a turn 1 visions like is never gona happen
but i tell this when i play 4of i get them like 60% of the time
and a turn 1 visions is soooo good
its so much better then compulsive research (i dont like the card) in my opinion simply because its draws u more, its cheaper to cast and its way more easy to defend


Last edited by Apos on Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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Apos



Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 757

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well it will NOT stop the loss against control Very Happy
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ColdBeer



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is my build. not trying to rewrite your deck, this is a significantly different build, just posting it to illustrate a couple of card choices.

//NAME: u/w control
3 Repeal
3 Devouring Light
3 Faith's Fetters
4 Wrath of God
3 Spell Snare
4 Remand
4 Cancel
4 Rewind
4 Think Twice
1 Whispers of the Muse
2 Sacred Mesa
2 Windreaver
SB: 1 Spell Snare
SB: 1 Repeal
SB: 1 Faith's Fetters
SB: 2 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 2 Ivory Mask
SB: 3 Sacred Ground
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Disenchant
1 Urza's Factory
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Adarkar Wastes
3 Azorius Chancery
7 Island
4 Plains


4 wrath's is a must for any white based control.
I only use one whispers. It frees up deck space and i only cast it if i can buy it back or am in a cycle it or lose the game situation.
Sacred Mesa Wins games.
Windreaver over akroma because it dies less often.
Chancery is great for this deck unless you play against land destruction. it is especially good with rewind.
Devouring light is a personal choice and could just as easily be condemn.
being that you are counter-heavy, repeal is a good choice because it let's you take care of the stuff that sneaks by your counters the first time around. it also keeps your hand full.
Fetters in my opinion is a must. against aggro the life gain allows you the time you need to stabilize the board, and it answers damn near anything.
I like think twice over ancestral, it gives you something to spend mana on eot when you had nothing to counter that turn.
I also opted for plains over flagstones. blood moon can be murder.

anyway that's my 2 cents.
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sonicqaz



Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does Windreaver die less often than Akroma?

Because you can return it to your hand? Be real. Akroma is definately a better card.
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you just need a SB...

With all of the counterspell decks I think that 4 spellsnare would be a great start...
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Apos



Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 757

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDav wrote:
Ancestral visions is dire. Not sure what the odds on getting one in the opening hand are but Apos suggests 60% !?

Think Twice is a stronger card because drawing an Ancestral visions late game sucks.

Ancestral Visions is not a good pick.


i am not good in math but i think its abit less then 50% when u p
and abit more then 50% when u draw
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Eldar



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Rochester

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I myself am playing U/W Control in T2 and so far the deck has been working very very well for me as I have taken either 1st or 2nd since I have started playing the deck at FNM. It really depends on your playing skills as well as you luck factor. You have so many answers normally for anything that it isn't hard to draw one but when the pressure is on you normally can't when you need to so you have to budget your mana correctly and dig as much as possible.

Honestly vision is just a bad card I don't care what people say. More often than not you will get stuck with it late game and it will be a dead draw. I would replace those with compulsive researches. You should also be running tidings just because the card is amazing. Whispers is also imo overrated because more often than not if you have 7 mana open you will want to make a factory token instead of drawing a card. Yes factory should be in the deck its that good. Post wrath it is amazing for board control. Also you need wrath or your deck won't beat agro ever. This is why I run 4 condemn too because it helps against agro or agro-control so much. I have found that unless your running a tron build repeal isn't that great mostly because you won't have the mana to do it unless it's really late game because leaving mana open for counters is way more important. I also see that a lot of your counters are soft counters so maybe you would want to switch rune snags or leaks for some rewinds/another cancel because hard counters are what switch tempo of games. You may prefer leak but as I will state later snag is just better mostly because graveyard hate isn't that big nowadays. Not many people are running crypt or leyline anymore for it to matter that much and even if they put them back in your deck you have 4 more counters at max out of it. You really don't need 3 akromas if you are running research and tidings because you will dig into her and that is why you should be running 4 hussar too that is what the deck does dig and find answers. Teferi main deck is really a judgment call I have seen lists and players run it both ways and it really depends on your metagame and personal preference I have found that he isn't really as helpful as say wrath would be if put in his spot normally. And if you run him main he provides a small other win condition however you lack a lot of flying defense which is why sacred mesa is a powerhouse it can switch games that you could have 1% chance of winning when you are at 1 life and your opponent is at 40. I have done it myself being at 1 vs u/g agro and coming back with pegasus tokens to steal the game away. Anything else should be mentioned below in the commonly asked questions.

Here is the decklist I have been running: 60 cards

Land: 24
4-Flagstones of Trokair
3-Hallowed Fountain
1-Adarkar Wastes
2-Urza's Factory
4-Plains
10-Island

Creatures: 4
4-Court Hussar

Legendary Creatures: 2
2-Akroma, Angel of Wrath

Spells: 30
4-Remand
4-Cancel
4-Rune Snag
4-Wrath of God
4-Condemn
3-Compulsive Research
3-Sacred Mesa
2-Rewind
2-Tidings

Sideboard: 15 (adjust to your metagame) (important note - I have no dragonstorm in my meta)
4-Disenchant
3-CoP: Red
3-Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
3-Teferi's Moat
2-Ivory Mask

Now there are a few questions you may ask about my build and the answers are very simple.
1) 3 Sacred Mesa? Well at first I was running this deck a tad different with draining whelk maindeck for the extra win condition and it wasn't needed, so I put the mesa into the whelk spot since mesa has brought the tempo with me at 1 life and him at 30 back to me winning the game. Yes it is that good if they cannot answer it quickly. Also the fact of cumulative upkeep only being 2 per turn or sac an already made pegasus is a small price to pay for its services.
2) Rune Snag? Yes rune snag I have found is infinitely better. Sure I have come to the point where I need to have a leak but can only counter for 2, however I have found that more often than not I will counter for 4-6 consistently and even 8 quite often with the amount of draw in the deck. It is also a better card in the control mirror seeing as still most people prefer leak and u benefit from this late game by countering their threats with a card they would normally see as dead. Even if they also have them your deck should see more if not the same amount of them just because of the card drawing in it thus making it even better because chances are you will counter for even more when they won't see more than 1-2 per game.
3) No Fetters? Yet, again this is a metagame call. Normally I would run these board against a few decks however most of my meta is control and a bit of agro so I run disenchants board for their fetters and so far I haven't really needed the life gain or delay that fetters provide. Normally condemn or wrath are sufficient for this. However, if you have a lot of agro and glare in your meta you may find that fetters are necessary but in all honesty normally having the extra counters main should allow a good player to budget his counters better so that you can still control the game just like the deck says in its name.
4) No signets? Well if you feel this way look up to what i said before.
5) 3 Research? Yeah only 3 they really help sometimes but most of the time you need the counter mana open and you have to target a player with them and with so much control/burn in my meta ivory mask is more important than they are. I have even considered switching them to think twices which may be more efficient but I find they are just clutch most times that I need to dig rather than just have the 1-2 cards depending on mana.
6) 3 Fountain? 1 Wastes? Yeah yeah this one is kind of obvious, if you can afford to have all these cards and can find people willing to trade/lend them to you then yes run four of each however I don't have that option so I am stuck running what I have. Also having to build decks for up to four people a week severely limits your duals so sacrifices must be made.
7) Akroma? Yes most builds run her she is a must even just having her in hand causes an opponent to discard her when u have 4 mana out instead of something else. She also makes them think twice about persecuting for blue when she is in your deck. And if she hits the board look out. Also if need be you can condemn her yourself for 6 life. Very good card 100% necessary in the deck. There is a reason to only run 2 though.

I hope my insights have helped you a little bit if you have any more questions feel free to post or message me.
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Apos



Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 757

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what vision rulez u better test it before judging it
it cost u so ur not gona tap out for it
u can defend it with counters much easier then research or tidings
it draws u more cards and 4 turns shouldnt be to big problem (remand helps there very good and is the biggest enemy also Very Happy)
teferi is so great cause he is good vs control and aggro
control he stops there counters and surprising instants, can be played eot and is untouchable till u untap
cards like devoring light and condem wont work anymore
also it has a funny extra that makes all ur creature flashy wich is pretty good in sum builds
ah forgot 1 thing he also stops every suspended card

vs aggro u can cast him when ur op. is attacking and block a weaker threat to generate card advantage

or just eot so u can have mana open for counters

anyway why should sum1 discard ur arkoma when u have 4 mana and Resurrection. zombitify etc. running arround everywhere
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