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Slogger
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 33
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 Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: lotus bloom and ancestral vision? |
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hey guys i need help here.. can you repeal a lotus bloom? it has no actual mana cost, not even zero. And can u duplicate a ancestral visopns with Izzet guildmage? again, it has no actual mana cost
thanx |
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Wurly
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| For the purposes of permanents in play with no mana cost, it's converted mana cost is 0 (think tokens). As for Ancestral Vision, I'm inclined to say it also has a converted mana cost of 0 because I'm pretty sure everything has to have a converted mana cost though I'm not entirely sure about this. |
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Slogger
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| if that were true for visions then that would b really cheap with guildmage.. |
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Slogger
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| and what about evermind? it says spells w/o mana costs cant b played, so bloom and visions im assuming dont have any mana cost |
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akryder
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: lotus bloom and ancestral vision? |
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[quote= can u duplicate a ancestral visopns [/quote]
if i'm not mistaken, you can infinintly (Sp?) cast Ancestral Visions with the Djinn from GP... to my understanding... unless the spells without mana costs can't be played is still in effect when Suspend is done... |
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DeadEyeZhot
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't know if this is RIGHT but I don't think your able to Repel something that is being used with suspended since the card is technically removed from the game til the Suspended Counters are removed from it. |
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Wurly
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: lotus bloom and ancestral vision? |
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| akryder wrote: | [quote= can u duplicate a ancestral visopns
if i'm not mistaken, you can infinintly (Sp?) cast Ancestral Visions with the Djinn from GP... to my understanding... unless the spells without mana costs can't be played is still in effect when Suspend is done... |
The difference between guildmage and djinn is that replicate must be payed upon casting of the spell. When an Ancestral Visions is played, it has no mana cost until it goes on the stack therefore you can not replicate it. Guildmage on the other hand says copy which means that you are copying the spell after it is on the stack in which case it has a converted mana cost.
As for what DeadEyeZhot is saying, I think we are refering to the situation where the Lotus has already been played, not when it is still in another zone with suspend counters on it. When it hasn't been played it, it can not be repeal'd. |
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onecleanceli
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| TK42 is correct... guildmage can copy ancestral, for reasons given, as far as differences with replicate and copy... lotus bloom, to be repealed, you would just pay a U, just like a token, as mentioned, for the same purposes and reasons |
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Ronnan
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:55 am Post subject: |
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okay
just to make it clear
objects without Manacost can be played (new rule)
you just can´t pay [ ] , so you need an effect that lets you play it without paying its Manacost
djin illuminatus looks for Manacost, wich would be [ ], wich you can´t pay, so that does not work
objects without Manacost have a Converted Manacost of 0 (compare lands, usual tokens)
izzet gm and repeal looks for the Converted Manacost,
wich is 0, so it works fine |
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