When are Additional Costs paid

fentl · Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 6

I have a stupid timing question, if anyone could point to the magic rule that solves this, I'd appreciate it.

Here is the situation:
During combat, I blocked my opponents Goliath Spider with a Lurking Informant. After damage was on the stack, I played Fiery Conclusion, saccing the Informant. He (active player) responded with a Char to my Informant. How does this all unwind? He swore that the Char killed the Informant before anything else. I let it go since it was pretty much a moot point as I was getting the crap kicked out of me by a drafted Simic Skyswallower anyway. Later I got to wondering about that since it's an additional cost to the spell and I thought all costs had to be paid before the other player would have received priority to announce his Char. Any rules guru's have useful insight?

Thanks
Lee

IanRobbins · Joined: 02 Dec 2004 Posts: 233

He cannot char ur guy. The cost is payed with the mana. By the time he gets priority, the informant will be dead, therfore cannot be targeted by char.

Guest · Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject:

you announce the spell and pay all costs as required including sacing of your informant...then the spell goes to the stack...since sacing is part of the cost nothing can be done by your oppenet till costs are played and the spell is going onto the stack

Guest · Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject:

Yeah, him targetting Informant with Char would be illegal, since Fiery Conclusion is already on the stack. He cannot let a spell resolve, and respond to seperate parts/costs of the spell.

So what they said is correct.

Guest · Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:51 am Post subject:

Imagine the Firey Conclusion was a Plagued Rusalka. Additional costs are paid at the same time as other costs, just like in the Rusalka's ability. He can't target it if it was a Rusalka, and he can't target it as the Conclusion.

Haro · Joined: 01 Sep 2004 Posts: 240

Let's have fun with analogies.

You go to a store to and pay for a TV (fiery conclusion). You pay with a credit card and the cashier (the game) asks for ID (additional cost) and you hand it to her and sign the credit card slip. Now, your friend can do anything to you including raping you and then killing you but the TV is officially yours.

Congrats.

fentl · Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 6

So, obviously I should have slapped him around (Bad me for not fighting about the rules). Can anyone tell me where in the Oracle rulings I can read about how this should go, so I can print them for the next time. My opponent indicate that this was the way the 'new' rules were and that it was just tough news. If it's not, then I'd like to help him learn since he's appearently a pretty popular player and I'd rather we all play by the rules now than get to a real tournament and get dropped for being blatantly stupid.

Thanks for the help and reassurance -- not to mention having my friends rape and kill me while trying to stop me from purchasing my new TV Smile

Guest · Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:00 am Post subject:

well sir your opponent was, and probably still is, an idiot... first of sacrificing is the fastest effect there is, there is no response to a sacrifice ability (other than whatever triggers from the sacrifice, it goes onto the stack, then can be responded to) but whatever is sacrificed, is just that... sacrificed, dead, not in play, in the graveyard (or RFG, pending situation)... he is no longer a legal target for char, or any kind of spell/ability (unless he managed to slip in a stifle or something to that nature)... lets assume he somehow remanded the fiery conclusion, it would go back to your hand, but the informant is already sacrificed, as part of the addiotional cost... so as everyone else said already... cards that say that should be self-explanatory as long as you use common sense... "as an additional cost to play".. just read it and think about it... additionally to you paying mana, you must do this before the spell even goes to the stack.... if he were to char ur informant first, you could respond with the conclusion, char would counter-resolve (we like to say fizzle) and he wouldnt take his 2 dmg from it b/c it never reesolved, your informant would be gone, and conclusion would be the top spell on the stack now, targetting whatever

Tinefol · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 64

Comprehensive rules.
409. Playing Spells and Activated Abilities
Rolling Eyes

fentl · Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 6

Haro · Joined: 01 Sep 2004 Posts: 240

Guest · Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:27 am Post subject:

If anyone wants a good short list of rules and how to interpret stuff, go to magicthegathering.com, and look for the last article of Saturday School. It was posted about a week ago so it shouldn't be too hard to find. It's an amazing resource, making it easy to understand every rule on about 1 and a half sheets of paper.

sephiroth667 · Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 74

What I would like to know is how the hell this guy drafted a Simic Sky Swallower AND a Char Shocked

Anyways, blah blah, rulings are correct, sacrifice is the quickest thing there is. Oh and the Stifle would prevent you from ditching the creature.

Guest · Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject:

ElvishGod · Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 2924

YOU CANNOT COUNTER COSTS!!!!

geez