Communication Breakdown

kendiggy · Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Posts: 366 Location: not here

Alright, here's a challenge for all you English Language and Linguistics experts out there:

I'm playing in a Rav block tourney. My opponent has Skeletal Vampire and two bats tokens in play. Not enough mana open to make more bats. I have Simic Skyswallower in play, Savage Twister and Electrolyze in my hand and enough mana to cast both of them. What I want to do is kill the vampire and all his tokens using only the three named cards. The best way that I can think of is twist for one, hope that he sacrifices only ONLY ONE bat token to put a regen sheild on the vampire, then swing with SSS, hope that he blocks, and then with damage on the stack, I electrolyze the vampire so that he takes the damage, regenerates and then dies from combat damage. What I don't want him to do is sacrifice both tokens to put two regen sheilds on the vampire, because then he will live through the combat damage as well.
So, I do it. I twist for one, but the problem comes when my opponent responds. He picks up both of his bat tokens, makes a slight motion with his hand towards the vampire and puts his tokens out of play. Now I don't know if his intent was to sac both tokens or just one. It makes a difference in the way this plays out. I need to ask him. The problem is, if I ask him, if he's a smart player, he'll prolly say both.

My question is: Assuming he's a smart player, how do I ask in such a way as to not make him think to sac both?

wh33ls · Guest

you are thinking to hard. I think the best way would be to simply say "what did that represent?" it makes him verify whether or not he has made 2 shields while also not let him on to the possibility he can if he hasn't thought of it already

Guest · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject:

when the vampire regen triggers from the electrolyze, the combat damage will be removed as part of the regeneration. the regen removes all damage from it, taps it, and removes from combat if its in combat

kendiggy · Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Posts: 366 Location: not here

Damage has already been assigned and put on the stack. He'll take lethal damage twice. I confirmed this with a judge.

Anyways, I think I figured it out. I think you have to put the words in his mouth. You have to say "Just one, right?" Then all he has to say is yes or no. Trick him into saying it. If you say it casually, he won't think anything of it until it's too late. Sales tactics. That's why people hate salesmen.
The only drawback is if you don't do it in front of a judge, you end up looking like a total dickhead calling him on it when he realizes it.

Strovil · Joined: 11 Mar 2005 Posts: 567

"Just one" is an immediately clue in to the number. You have communicated that the number matters by not only stating a number but also confirming that it was "just one", indicating it could have been more.

The correct Jedi Mind Trick would be "A regen shield?" in the right tone. Now you have indicated it in general terms while surreptitiously limiting it to one shield instead of two when he says "Yes."

Guest · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject:

Guest · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:16 pm Post subject:

MeddlingMatt · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 74

While not having an ethical problem with such an honest question as yours, Kendiggy, I see Strovil's answer as dodgy. The two "slight motion"s seem to indicate that he's already put two shields around his Vampire. A question like "just one, right?" is the best you can do, hoping that he agree's (sales tactic indeed); against a player you don't think is good enough to do that, just a "what does that mean" would probably be better.

But if you were to use Strovil's plan, you may very well find yourself arguing the wrong side against someone who had already gestured both his bats towards his Vampire, and using the argument that "I said A regen shield!" on the judge.

Guest · Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:31 am Post subject:

Guest · Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:32 am Post subject:

Did i mention I hate "guest" status. Why did they do that to me in the last post...

the_guy_123 · Joined: 08 Jun 2005 Posts: 125 Location: Quebec

Don't regeneration shields last until end of turn?

Guest · Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:29 am Post subject:

Flashstorm · Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 9

Think of it logically. If the player had no other uses for the second bat, and he is able to understand that he needs to sac one, why wouldnt he sac both? The bats will get RFG anyway, any player smart enought to realise that he should take advantage of the first bat will take advantage of the second too.

Guest · Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:58 am Post subject:

Guest · Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject:

Rules lawyer? Rules are rules for a reason; so you can use them to your advantage.