Muse Vassal & Epics

Banditking87 · Joined: 02 Dec 2005 Posts: 110

How do the two interact?

CMA-Flippi · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:01 am Post subject:

As tough it's your Epic spell.

Since the removed Epic Card is played (at the first time), it will trigger in your next upkeeps.
By rules, the "you" always refers to the controller of the ability when it was onto the stack/set.

So all references of "you" in the Ideal, regardless of how it's played (via Muse Vessel) is the controller of the Ideal when it was played.
The Muse Player won't be able to play spells anymore ("you" + epic) but Epic will trigger for him during each of his upkeeps

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cards:
Enduring Ideal {5WW} |Sorcery| Search your library for an enchantment card and put it into play. Then shuffle your library. / Epic (For the rest of the game, you can't play spells. At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, copy this spell except for its epic ability.) SOK-R [Legal in Vin Leg Ext Std.]

Muse Vessel {4} |Artifact| 3, T: Target player removes a card in his or her hand from the game. Play this ability only any time you could play a sorcery. / 1: Choose a card removed from the game with Muse Vessel. You may play that card this turn. DIS-R [Legal in Vin Leg Ext Std.]

Banditking87 · Joined: 02 Dec 2005 Posts: 110

If you play an epic spell normally, you can't play anything else by using the vassel to remove it, correct? Since it still says "play" in the text

CMA-Flippi · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:26 am Post subject:

Correct.
If an effect says something like "play the card" (Muse Vessel)
it is usually treaten as though it was played (exceptions: Myojin)

If an effect says something like "copy the spell" (Twincast)
this copy won't trigger any effects that trigger for the spell beeing played. (The spell isnt played in that case, just copied)

coppro · Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Posts: 17

You know, could you cite a ruling for this? It says "during each of your upkeeps, copy this spell". From my POV, during your upkeep, you copy it, because you controlled the spell that created the effect. Since you copied it, it defaults to your control. Am I missing something?

Sanor · Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 7

Ok, here's how it works:

You control Muse Vessel, your opponent has an Epic spell in hand.

You use Muse Vessel's first ability, and your opponent removes the epic spell.

You use Muse Vessel's second ability to play the Epic spell (paying it's mana cost as well). You control the spell, and at the beginning of each of your upkeeps, the spell copies. All effects of the spell that refer to 'you' refer to well, *you*, the person who played and controlled the epic spell. You will no longer be able to play spells, though you will still be able to use Muse Vessel's first ability to keep your opponent's hand low.

Remember, own != control.