How to shuffle?

Jorbes · Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 187 Location: Netherland

As the "what is the best program when it comes to shuffling the library"-debate continues I need some advise.

What exactly would be the best way to shuffle the library as "real" as possible?

I dont know how mws/appr do it, but the way we figured it was this:

repeat the following 20 times for 1 shuffle of the library
[randomize library by picking cards from it one by one randomly and stacking them to create a pile]

any ideas / feedback on how it can be done / should be done also?

please put your ideas in pseudo code like i did, so i know what you're saying Wink

NahHolmes · Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Posts: 561

I used to have to program crap for a computer class. First off you have to understand there is no "Random" in computers. You seed the random integer to time since dos was created or whatever (which is basically a realy big fairly random number) then it goes to some list of fairly random numbers in a databank somewhere. I had to write a program to play Poker or some crap and the way I did the shuffler was to have to cards start out mixed up, (The cards would basically be assigned randomly to numbers then the numbers would again be randomized resulting in a severly random deck). I ran this program modified (basically in "debug" mode if you will) to make sure it was sufficently random and could never detect any sort of pattern through many many tests. Of course the problem with Magic is you basically have between 4 and 20 of the same cards in a deck. This can make a randomized deck seems less random when you draw 3 forests in a row when this can infact be compared to drawing three Spades in a row during a game of cards.

Stryfe- · Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 72

nahholmes your just sexy

NahHolmes · Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Posts: 561

Jorbes · Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 187 Location: Netherland

NahHolmes · Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Posts: 561

Jorbes · Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 187 Location: Netherland

ElvishGod · Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 3009

Okay: here's the deal

MWS is far more random, and intricately programmed.

Apprentice automatically avoids land clumps... Which makes it even less random.

Jorbes · Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 187 Location: Netherland

ElvishGod · Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 3009

Jorbes, for all your shuffler questions on MWS (And any other MWS needs)

Message this guy:

Strovil

Jorbes · Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 187 Location: Netherland

Laplie · League Staff Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 527

this is not another MWS vs Appr shuffler debate so please don't turn it into one.

back when I played IRL, i used to split my deck into 6 piles, then shuffle them with each other a few times. Then with the full deck do a few ripple shuffles. Then a few overhand shuffles. Then a final ripple.

I was never superstitious about the way i shuffle or how I shuffled. I usually just shuffle until i felt like it was randomized enough. And my superb deck making skills meant I was almost never screwed.

Trotsky1 · Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 322

You can actually set how your deck is shuffled in mws there is an option somewhere, which allows you to choose between full randomization and real life mode. Deep Analysis, under Statistical analysis tab.

Further the settings tab allows you to supposedly set exactly how the deck is shuffled.

nico · Administrator Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 708

Jorbes, there is no way you can make a shuffler that everyone is happy with. People just like to blame outside factors when they lose, instead of their own folly. (hmm, where did I read that again?)

Greetz Nico

Strovil · Joined: 11 Mar 2005 Posts: 575

The MWS Shuffler article on MWSGames.com.

I do not know pseudo-code, but the article has the actual code for the MWS Shuffler.

It also makes the argument that any attempt to make a shuffler less random, such as to replicate a real shuffle, violates the rules of Magic.

As the rule goes, if you notice a difference between your shuffle and MWS's shuffle, then you are not shuffling correctly.

In real life, I pile shuffle to count, riffle shuffle 4-5 times, side shuffle until it "feels right," riffle 4-5 more times, and then pile shuffle to count once more.