dark bidding

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

no sideboard yet. but the main deck has been performing well. surprised goblins is not posted on this extended forum anywhere.

in this version, cabal therapy allows you to force through countermagic so you can resolve bidding. it's as if therapy is made to live in this deck.

also, having black creatures and ones that can potentially regenerate are a lot more useful then you might think.

dark confidant in some ways fills the void left by skullclamp and aether vial. it speeds the deck up allowing you to drop ringleader earlier and get to that oh so critical third land drop.

main

7 mountain
4 bloodstained mire
4 sulfurous springs
3 city of brass
3 swamp
2 shadowblood ridge

4 cabal therapy
2 patriarch's bidding

4 dark confidant
4 skirk prospector
4 goblin piledriver
4 goblin turncoat
4 goblin warchief
4 goblin ringleader
3 goblin matron
2 gempalm incinerator
1 siege-gang commander
1 goblin sharpshooter

sledder is absent in this deck because the deck needs 2 drops, and turncoat serves the needs of the deck more in my opinion. i don't need to pump my goblins up in the current environment. and double turncoats can block 4/4 creatures such as myr enforcer and ravenous baloth and one will still live afterwards. turncoats may also endlessly block equipped protection from red creatures. not bad.

27 goblins + 4 confidants are a very solid creature base. definitely open to suggestions.

peace.

greendragon

ant900 · Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 2476 Location: somewhere

if your deck has a mainboard stragity to block bigger dudes then you know your goblin deck isnt very good, add 4 shatteringsprees to the side and that should be enough to take care of affinity

also you might want to add 1 kiki jiki

Okmar · Joined: 26 Feb 2005 Posts: 383

- 4 goblin turncoat
+ 1 matron
+ 1 kiki
+ 2 gempalms

sideboard could use extraions, duress, sharpshooters, dranulas crusade etc

Conkisstador · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 265

METAGAME:
ichorid seemed like the most powerful deck from anything i've seen... that's a bunch of untaps every turn and sharpshooter completely nulls them... u need 2 MD and 2 more SB. Goblin Sharpshooter is one of the most efficient shut-down-an-entire-deck cards ever printed... and it's never useless (suboptimal vs control obviously but manageable and at 2 copies not a problem)

Dr_Moo · Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 950

You probably want Chrome Mox to help get the turn 1 Confidant. Mox is also generally good in Goblins.

Apos · Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 732

city of brass is not needed

Okmar · Joined: 26 Feb 2005 Posts: 383

you know you could just go for consistency

7 Mountain
4 bloodstained mire
4 sulfurous springs
3 swamp
1 shadowblood ridge

4 Chrome Mox
4 cabal therapy
2 patriarch's bidding

4 dark confidant
4 skirk prospector
4 goblin piledriver
4 goblin warchief
4 goblin ringleader
4 goblin matron
3 gempalm incinerator
3 goblin sharpshooter
1 Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

Ant 900

Blocking bigger dudes is not the plan. Coats do more damage then sledder and fill the 2 drop slot and works with Sharpshooter. It’s just better in my opinion.

Okmar

All your substitutions are more expensive then the 2 drop turncoats. My opponent is well on their way to dead by the time Kiki would resolve. Remember Vial is gone so you have to hard cast that noise now. Sideboard tips are definitely noted. Interesting.

Bertissmo

Right now I have 2nd shooter in the side, but yeah, I love the card too. Don’t know about the Ichorid deck. Only deck I have lost to with this is Burn or Red Deck Wins.

Moo

I know that is true for monored goblins, but is it true for Red/Black bidding goblins? I'll try them out. I feelr you on the 1st turn Confidant though.

Apos

You are right sir. Actually found this out before I read your post.

Okmar

LOL. That’s what I switched my manabase to before I read your post. Moxes are not in yet though. I’m running barbarian ring over them to deal with silver knights among other things. Sorry guys, I am feeling the coats. They just work for me. Have you guys actually tried them?

List so far.

Main deck
7 mountain
4 bloodstained mire
4 sulfurous springs
4 barbarian ring
3 swamp
1 shadowblood ridge
4 cabal therapy
2 patriarch's bidding
4 dark confidant
4 skirk prospector
4 goblin piledriver
4 goblin turncoat
4 goblin warchief
4 goblin ringleader
3 goblin matron
2 gempalm incinerator
1 siege-gang commander
1 goblin sharpshooter

Good hunting. Peace.

greendragon

Okmar · Joined: 26 Feb 2005 Posts: 383

all my subsitutions are also more effective than turncoats....coats are useless and if your worried about blocking and being on defensive then your doing somthing wrong with either the way you play or how you think about goblins...true kiki is slower but it seems you havent played alot...some games do get stalled out..and kiki is just a win more card...drivers, ringleaders, matrons, shooters...also i have played gobos infin times with the one seigegang maindecked and have never played it....replaced it with kiki and <3 it

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

We disagree Ok. I have definitely played sanctioned tournaments, pro tour qualifiers, grand prixs and even at nationals once since The Dark was released for what it’s worth. Played goblin bidding all season when scourge was legal in type 2. I live in New York City, home of the infamous Neutral Ground.

With dark confidants in the deck, you don’t want to run the risk of drawing 5cc spells like kiki or siege or even bidding for that matter I have found. I actually did take your suggestions and took out siege for kiki and the other things. I found I had 2 mana at times and all I could do was cycle gempalm often to no effect. Sometimes you are slow getting to 3 mana. With gems, you obviously want your gobos on the board as early as possible.

Also, I really don’t want to see more then 1 matron in my opening hand. Sometimes, your opponents play therapy and advertising you are searching for warchief or ringleader just sucks out loud. I used to run therapy all the time vs gobos because between matron and ringleader they are telling you everything in their hand. You always have targets. After drawing kiki and bidding off of confidant a few times I cut them. I found I missed the 2 drops.

Coat costs 2 life with confidant. They are a solid 2 drop or 1 drop with warchief. Everything you suggested except mox costs more. They speed up the deck. If you want to play sharpshooter in the deck, you need something else to sac stuff too as well besides skirk prospector. There were times this happened in testing.

Also, several times in a recent tournament I cast 3rd or 4th turn Pile, Coat, Coat for the win even as my opponent was laughing at me playing them. And I cut bidding to 1. How many times do you cast it in a match anyway? There were also times they lived through pyroclasm and other destroy effects like mortify and various burn to continue killing my opponent. It’s a regenerating goblin 2cc goblin. How bad is that?

Also, just as I suspected, barbarian rings came in handy vs. silver knight and even equipped Sword of Fire and Ice creatures. Colorless damage is something which comes in very handy. Also, there were 3 games in the last tournament my opponent was able to stabilize somewhat after killing off my team and I killed them with rings. So they stay for now.

Those were my findings. And for what it’s worth I won an online mini yesterday on magic-league with the following build.

Sideboard
4 pithing needle
4 smother
3 withered wretch
2 shatter
1 patriarch's bidding
1 dralnu's crusade

Main
5 mountain
4 bloodstained mire
4 sulfurous springs
4 barbarian ring
3 shadowblood ridge
3 swamp
4 cabal therapy
1 patriarch's bidding
4 dark confidant
4 skirk prospector
4 goblin piledriver
4 goblin turncoat
4 goblin warchief
4 goblin ringleader
3 goblin matron
3 gempalm incinerator
2 goblin sharpshooter

I may cut therapy main for pithing needles. There is a lot of equipment running around out there. That’s just the results after taking your suggestions for what it’s worth. Those are my findings.

Peace.

greendragon

Okmar · Joined: 26 Feb 2005 Posts: 383

personally i feel adding black is subpar at best, SB possibly. It makes your ringleaders that much weaker...and allows those coats...tho it does add the confidant. gobos isnt anything amazing anymore with the lose of vail, tho they can be replaced with mox's for some sort of accel.

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

well this guy has to be SOME good with jitte and sword of fire and ice being as heavily played as they are. maybe a 4 of? definitely a 3 of. course it makes the mana base a little weird. looking at

5 mountain
4 bloodstained mire
4 sulfurous springs
4 barbarian ring
3 swamp
2 darigaaz's caldera
1 stomping ground
1 overgrown tomb

i really don't want more than 1 caldera.

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

green has proven to be substandard. so it has been dropped. and introducing frenzied goblin which is SOME kind of good. and king is engineered plague insurance.

main
4 bloodstained mire
4 sulfurous springs
4 barbarian ring
4 mountain
4 swamp
2 shadowblood ridge

4 dark confidant
2 patriarch's bidding

4 skirk prospector
4 frenzied goblin
4 goblin piledriver
4 goblin turncoat
4 goblin warchief
4 goblin ringleader
2 goblin matron
2 goblin sharpshooter
2 gempalm incinerator
2 goblin king

the board needs serious work.

peace.

greendragon

Dr_Moo · Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 950

I'm going to again suggest Chrome Mox. I just think Goblins needs it, and running Confidant just strengthens its case. Goblins is probably the most mana-intensive aggro deck of all time, and Mox really helps out. You have so many ways of obtaining card advantage (Shooter, Matron, Ringleader, SCG, Incinerator) and all of your cards are so expensive, you typically have several cards left in hand anyway. Pitching one to Mox and speeding up your game a full turn is just good.

I think Kiki-Jiki and Siege-Gang are both better than Bidding. I really can't see why you wouldn't run Siege-Gang, as he is nothing short of ridiculous.

As for the sideboard, I'd suggest: Cabal Therapy, Flametongue Kavu, Pithing Needle, Shattering Spree, Terminate, Blood Moon, Sparksmith, Cranial Extraction, Sun Droplet, Smother, Fledgling Dragon, Darkblast, Defense Grid, and Ghastly Demise as possiblities off the top of my head.

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

u are of course right about chrome mox. now the main deck looks like this.

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Mountain
4 Swamp
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Chrome Mox
4 Magma Jet
4 Dark Confidant
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Frenzied Goblin
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Turncoat
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Goblin Matron

i added the jets because well, the deck seems to need some removal. and playing jet with confidant at times seems somehow broken. it also fixes when i am slow to draw mana #3. for now, i love them.