countersliver

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

been having very good luck with the following build. keep in mind this is aggro control so the point is to disrupt a few annoying thing your opponent does while you you vial or play your guys which will quickly beat them down because of their amazing synergy. your opening hand you should see the following: 1) land aether vial 2) if no vial, hibernation or crystalline with 2 land to play him, preferably fetch lands. if you don't see that in your hand, it's a mulligan. you will not win unless you get hibernation or crystalline or vial into play.

sideboard

4 honorable passage
4 duress
2 engineered plague
2 dance of the dead
2 perish
1 contagion

main deck

3 undergound sea
3 city of brass
3 tundra
2 polluted delta
2 flooded strand
2 gemstone mine
1 undiscovered paradise
1 tropical island
1 volcanic island

4 swords to plaowshares
4 force of will
4 aether vial
3 seal of cleansing
3 pithing needle
3 brainstorm
3 impulse

4 hibernation sliver
4 crystalline sliver
4 muscle sliver
3 winged sliver
3 acidic sliver

main nemesis of the deck is monored burn hence the 4 honorable passage. duress helps as well. the deck invites price of progress. some would argue for cop: red which i have never liked because it doesn't help you win.

next of course is engineered plague which is less of a nuisance then you would think. between force of will and seal, decks that run plague are easier to deal with then burn decks.

homebrew can be hard, but the thing is, they may get a bad draw. pithing needle for wasteland, nantuko shade, mishra's factory. it's not a horrible matchup, just slightly in their favor.

every other match is fairly good assuming you have the hand i stated above. still open for suggestions though. have noticed no one plays this deck. the ban of demonic consultation killed it, but i think enough utility cards have been released to make it playable again.

styx^ · Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 35

passage is not bad but as it costs 1W i think Hallow is better even if passage can finish a game

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

yep. hard to argue the mana issue. will try them out. thx for the suggestion.

Hacko · Joined: 13 Sep 2004 Posts: 18

I've been playing this deck since it was extended legal, and tho I'm not familiar with the current legacy meta, I think some changes can be done.

I don't know why you worry so much about them dying that you need hybernation so bad. And tho acidic is nice win condition, I find it overkill.

I'd go like this:

-4 hybernation
-3 acidic
+1 winged
+3 concordant crossroads
+4 counterspell

That allows you to fix that mana base to UGW, or UGWb for sideboard issues. You could even fit a Volrath's Stronghold or Patriarch's in there somewhere.

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

Black is one of the strongest colors in this deck. Plague, contagion, perish and discard are strong. Hibernation is way too good not to run and exploit in this deck and so is Acidic.

Concordant crossroads causes a lot of problems even if I were to move my manabase to become more green. Right now Black, blue and white cards go in the board only. Those colors are easy to come by. The green and red in this deck is splashed only and not really needed because the cards you are splashing green/red for can also be played for free with Aether Vial.

Keep in mind, with Aether Vial, you are playing creatures at the end of your opponents turn for free basically. So they will attack on your turn basically as soon as they come into play. Giving your opponent haste, well, it destroy a chief benefit of your Aether Vial.

Main deck seems fine to me. Board changes are as follows:

4 cabal therapy
4 hallow
2 engineered plague
2 animate dead
2 perish
1 contagion

I decided to play therapy over duress because of the ability to use it twice if necessary and target creatures. Animate dead because creatures come into play untapped and hallow like the man said above costs only W instead of 1W.

good hunting. peace.

greendragon

IanRobbins · Joined: 02 Dec 2004 Posts: 233

I would like some deck description. Im not really sure what the maindeck needle/seal is for. It seems that you may want to cut impulse and def add a 4th brainstorm. I think that paradise and 1 gemstone mind cal be replaced by another delta and a city. This will add a little more synergy with the brainstorms. I would strongly suggest running some solid draw like FoF or Thirst, probably in your case thirst beause of the maindeck vials and 3 insted of 4 mana.

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

I would like some deck description. Im not really sure what the maindeck needle/seal is for. It seems that you may want to cut impulse and def add a 4th brainstorm. I think that paradise and 1 gemstone mind cal be replaced by another delta and a city. This will add a little more synergy with the brainstorms. I would strongly suggest running some solid draw like FoF or Thirst, probably in your case thirst beause of the maindeck vials and 3 insted of 4 mana.

Description. Here goes.

Land

3 underground sea
3 city of brass
3 tundra
2 gemstone mine
2 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
1 undiscovered paradise
1 volcanic island
1 tropical island

Well, this should be self-explanatory. This is a blue deck with 2 secondary colors, black and white. Therefore, red and green cards do not belong in the board (unless they are slivers) because they ideally should be being cast with aether vial. The 2 strand and 2 delta are 2 each because of haunting echoes.

4 aether vial
18 potential sources of blue
13 potential sources of black
13 potential sources of white
11 potential sources of blue
11 potential sources of blue

Slivers

4 hibernation sliver
4 crystalline sliver
4 muscle sliver
3 winged sliver
3 acidic sliver

18 creatures. It used to be 17. The last creature added was the 3rd acidic sliver. Sometimes, you don’t draw or cannot get crystalline or hibernation in play. Acidic has it’s uses even though it is not as stable. You can’t afford no to draw a creature. 18 helps that.

Spells

4 aether vial
4 force of will
4 swords to plowshares
3 seal of cleansing
3 pithing needle
3 brainstorm
3 impulse

The vials are obvious. You always want them. Maybe 3 after boarding if they cant’ counter it. FOW is your only counterspell. Creature removal is also important especially vs reanimate and other recurring decks. Removing lands from the game that attack and may come back with crucible etc.

The seals are mostly for crucible of the world and to a lesser extent Standstill. Pithing Needle is mostly for Mishra’s Factory and public enemy number one Wasteland which eats your deck alive. But both cards are seldom useless. It seems running 3 of each is a solid number as you don’t draw too many and usually they always come in handy. You also need to shut down enchantress which this is not even enough.

3 Brainstorm because drawing Brainstorm in multiples kind of sucks unless you have a fetchland because you are looking at the same cards. Hell, Zvi Moshowitz had only 3 brainstorm in his deck. I would guess for the same reason. I realize there are decks you want 4. This is not one. Impulse is amazing. Remember this deck lost demonic consultation which is irreplaceable, Impulse let’s you stare at 4 cards and instantly put the best in your hand and the useless ones on the bottom. You are moving closer to cards you need in your deck. I think I am also biased because I used to play vs. Finkel way back in the day at Neutral Ground and it was nearly always a 4 of card for every deck he ran. You know after he cast impulse he probably had every card and counterspell he needed. I like the seach effect. At times you can brainstorm AND impulse which is strong. Yeah it costs 1 more then brainstorm, but I think it’s better in my opinion. 4 is too many. It takes a while for you to be in a position to cast it. Usually I toss it to force if I get it too early. You do need to find key cards at times. This helps.

Current Sideboard
4 duress
4 hallow
3 tormod’s crypt
2 engineered plague
2 perish

Duress to deal with Solidarity and other counter decks and your worst matchup is Burn and Price of Progress obviously. Hallow actually works well vs heavy creature decks and piledriver which this deck has a hard time with because it’s Protection from Blue.

Crypt is just essential for all the graveyard abuse.

Plague is mostly goblins and believe it or not elves. And I am convinced some of the most dangerous creatures in the game are green. Also, for survival, 2 perish.

Peace.

IanRobbins · Joined: 02 Dec 2004 Posts: 233

I really dont understand the seal mainboard. Landstill is a teir 3 deck at best. I would cut the impulse, Thirst just seemes a more solid draw spell. I would also suggest cabal therapy over duress in the SB.

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

thirst is better, but it costs 3 in a deck with 18 land in it. that's huge. for 3 mana i want something absolutely devastating. will try your suggestion though.

it's the same reason you don't find thirst in UG madness and UG threshold decks, because they are aggro control. you can't really afford to tap 3 to draw cards. you want to disrupt them just enough enough to beat them down. game over. ahead of thirst, i would play dark confidant. they were in here too, but because creature removal is more or less useless vs this deck, i found my opponent ALWAYS had a way yo get rid of him before i could utilize him.

seal is just too useful to cut. between deed, mishra's factories, crucible, umezawa's jitte, exploration, aether vial, enchantress' presence, engineered plague (run main deck by homebrew) and standstill, etc. not running it basically means i autolose if they resolve those spells. further, i can allow them to cast stuff and not use FOW and use seal instead to get rid of it. before the bannings, most countersliver ran 3 main deck.

you may be right about therapy being the better card. they used to be in here. against burn, it isn't though. you just want to take something to buy you some life. therapy you miss. their hand changes a lot and they run instants. i like therapy better overall. you don't really want to sac sliver to flash them back either. that's not helping you vs. burn. it's a bad matchup.

richunter · Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Posts: 2

I used to use 3 Brass Herald, but i found it a problem during the playtest, i am thinking of Standstill/Hesitation or Coat of Arms as a replacement,
comments and suggestions about this matter pls.

Coat of Arms - board creatures will benefit ( esp. with cryst on play)
Standstill/Hesitation - perfect 2 drop after the vial

I'll post my existing list later, t.y.[/i]

Vodka_drink · Joined: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 1130 Location: Brampton O

standstill is cool...but you need to have vial and board control...

you dont need coat with muscle sliver you should be fine

have you tryed daze? and maybe meddling mage?

vodka

richunter · Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Posts: 2

currently Using 4 Daze, 4 counterspells( planning on buying FoW next week for 2 Daze and 2 counterspell replacement)

Here is my current build
Mana[18] - [Budget - Post it Later]

Creatures[23]
3 crystalline sliver
1 victual sliver
2 acidic sliver
2 hybernation sliver
2 talon sliver - [will be replaced nextweek by 1aci.s. and 1crys. ]
2 clot sliver - [will be reaplaced tomorrow by 2 pithing needle]
4 muscle sliver
4 winged sliver
2 brood sliver - [still thinking if i should rep this w/a CoatofArms]
1 synapse sliver - [still thinking if i should rep this w/a hybernation]

Spells[19]
4 aether vial
4 daze - [2 Fow]
4 Counterspells- [2 Fow]
4 Impulse
3 brainstorms
3 Disenchant / seal of cleansing

I didn't put Stp in the mainboard because i want to utilize the use of the daze(early counters then keeping at least 2 lands for early Pithing Needles/Brainstorms and Impulses)

This deck is a More Aggro than Control, i don't want to include meddling mages(hmmm) , keep it in mind that the only spells that i need to control are (1) possible blocker (2) Wrath Effects (3) combo Key

i wan't to include CoatofArms for an early overrun, but right now?umm i think your right(still thinkning about CoatofArms)

current sideboard
4 true believer - [my anti-solidarity] (how bout meddling?)
4 StP - [anti-creature]
3 tormod’s crypt - [my anti-graves]
3 engineered plague - [my anti-gob]
2 deathmark - [anti-creature]

test play
5w - 1l vs solidarity(budget) - easy
3w - 2l vs deadguy ale - neck to neck
1w - 2l vs gob-cycle - still being overrun
2w - 2l vs Oath - still being overrun

I wan't to finished this deck before aug.30 comes, 1st week of september will be my 1st legacy tourney and my come-back to magic since 2001

more comments and suggestions pls. (i still don't know the keycards of other decks)
and thank you!!!! Smile

(hoping to have good slivers on timespiral)

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

ya this is my current version of the deck since the new set was released.

sideboard
4 honorable passage
4 cabal therapy
3 tormod’s crypt
2 engineered plague
2 perish

main deck

land(1 Cool

3 underground sea
3 city of brass
3 tundra
2 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
2 gemstone mine
1 undiscovered paradise
1 volcanic island
1 tropical island

spells(24)
4 aether vial
4 force of will
4 swords to plowshares
3 seal of cleansing
3 pithing needle
3 brainstorm
3 impulse

creatures(1 Cool

4 hibernation sliver
4 crystalline sliver
4 muscle sliver
2 two-headed sliver
2 winged sliver
2 acidic sliver

Black_Dog · Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Posts: 159

wouldn't pithing needles be SB only card?

I played your deck and everytime you dropped that card you chose something wrong (cept Vial which was useless). Figured more offense would help or counterspells or whatever else you want. Lotta people play Goblins and I dont think you do too well against them (in my exp from a 2/2 win).

greendragon · Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 17

it's a judgement call, but typically the deck needs 5-6 artifact enchantment removal. a recurring wasteland IS a problem for the deck. piting needles deal with that. it's a BIG problem. have not played a lot of tourneys with the deck as of late, but current version looks like this. there are a lot of differences. the deck definitely needs work.

sideboard
4 honorable passage
3 tormod's crypt
2 engineered plague
2 misdirection
2 perish
1 oath of ghouls
1 worship

main
land is the same as above total 18

spells (22)
4 aether vial
4 swords to plowshares
4 force of will
3 seal of cleansing
3 pithing needle
3 counterspell
3 tainted pact

creatures (1 Cool

4 hibernation sliver
4 crystalline sliver
4 muscle sliver
2 acidic sliver
2 winged sliver
2 two-headed sliver

the only changes were tainted pact which has proven so good in the deck you almost want 4 of them. i am still testing them a lot. but i like what i see. even if i don't get a card i want. i get a lot closer to it.

and the two-headed is mostly and aestheic choice.

another option is lim-dul's vault though i think tainted pact has to be a better choice. maybe not as effective bt the life loss i can see becoming an issue in some matchups.