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Magic Workstation or Cockatrice?


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> General Magic-League Issues

MWS or Cockatrice?
Magic Workstation
37%
 37%  [ 13 ]
Cockatrice
62%
 62%  [ 22 ]
Total Votes : 35

Author Message
Kabelis



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you're just grasping at straws, Pg8 Razz
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pg8



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 299

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kabelis wrote:
Now you're just grasping at straws, Pg8 Razz


This matters Razz
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adventur_



Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While Cockatrice is far from perfect, keep in mind that it's in ACTIVE DEVELOPMENT. Those things that annoy you could be gone in a few versions - everything that is broken in MWS is here to stay.

I'm not sure how server/client relations handle different game versions, whether there is a version-check in place already or not. It seems like a fairly standard thing to do, though, and could potentially be fairly easy to implement.

Still, it seems to me that people are listing Cockatrice's shortcomings, while conveniently ignoring the GLARING problems MWS has in league play. It is comically easy to abuse bugs to your advantage in MWS, and claim ignorance. If you want to abuse Cockatrice, you need a degree in computer science.

Also, people don't realize just how more convenient and intuitive the Cockatrice interface is. If you scream for MWS shortcuts and the likes, you are simply forgetting the fact that these are MWS-specific conventions. I was the same at first, wondering how I could deal with having to type all the time - until I realized that other users who weren't prejudiced by MWS simply played in a way that made these things largely unnecessary. It's not foolproof, and you still need some degree of communication - but there ARE shortcuts, and you don't really need more than "Ok" and "Wait!" when you think about it.

Cockatrice is also quite close to paper magic in its look and feel. This can be an advantage for people testing on it for IRL tournaments, as you'll be much more comfortable with the transition. It also teaches you smooth, methodical play better than MWS (though not as well as MTGO) because it has a designated "stack" zone.

For league play, though, there are some concerns still. The security issue is at the top of the list - this needs to be addressed in some way. On the other hand, it also offers a distinct league advantage: you can have a dedicated server for your league, with chat support and everything.
Then there's log files; timestamped .txt logs would do much to improve Cockatrice, and should be fairly simple to implement. Again: things that need changing in Cockatrice can ACTUALLY BE CHANGED!

I don't understand the issue with "maintenance". Surely auto-downloading card images directly from Gatherer is preferable to having to manually patch in things from .txt files every time, and then going on a quest to hunt down pictures on some shady Brazilian forum?

I do agree, though, that the card images could use some work. In particular, I'd like an option for cropped images + up-to-date Oracle text. I don't know if that's possible already, if it is it's certainly less than intuitive to do and should be addressed regardless. The issue of not being able to select specific versions of a card on a deck-by-deck basis is also a bit weird. I imagine this could be addressed fairly easily, though.

Is M-L in touch with the Cockatrice developers, by the way? Cooperating with the biggest free magic league should be in their interest, I would think, and do much for the popularity of the program. The issues still open should be fairly easy to fix, and once they are, I don't see anyone using MWS ever again.
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adventur I think you raise a very good point in that people have not really mentioned the flaws of MWS and the fact that it will never be improved again. However I will say funnily enough the internet is full of people with degree's in computer science and MIRC even more so. So if it is possible to abuse the open source nature people will, backwash the apprentice cheat program was freely available to anyone who knew about it and could use google. It was also completely untraceable if you knew what you were doing.
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JC_Strainer



Joined: 05 Jul 2009
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way people used to cheat on Apprentice was only possible, because all the information was stored on the client itsself, and could be modified before it was sent to the other player (deck order for example)

In Cockatrice, that information is stored only on the server, and made available only when you are allowed to access it (for example, the order of cards in your library is only transmitted when you are searching that library, not before)

As such, it isn't possible to show this information without having access to the server / hacking the server.

Not only hasn't this been done yet, it's also very unlikely anyone will put that much effort into it. If it should ever happen, I'm sure it can be dealt with.

The possible abusing of MWS bugs is a huge one in my opinion, I agree with adventur_ fully.
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that really is a non issue (which I will have to take your word on) which enough people seem to be saying it is then cockatrice has my vote.
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shadowist



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got some good news and bad news

Bad news:
Right now, the main developers cannot be contacted because they received a cease and desist letter from Hasbro. Cockatrice itself has no main developers... yet.

Good news:
For the most part, that just means the main server is shut down. The program still works; you just have to use different servers like JC's or woogerworks. Also, there are new developers working on the Lotus Project, which will implement ways to play other card games, supposedly bypassing all the legal arguments against cockatrice.
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adventur_



Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, since Cockatrice is not proprietary but open source, I assume that there is little stopping talented m-l people from adding the features required to make Cockatrice the application of choice. There's got to be computer-savvy people in the league SOMEWHERE, right?
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Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy choice Cockatrice. Only issue are possible cheats for people who are good with Computers but I have no idea how realistic that is.

In every other aspect Cockatrice is superior.
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jdblack



Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tao wrote:
Easy choice Cockatrice. Only issue are possible cheats for people who are good with Computers but I have no idea how realistic that is.

In every other aspect Cockatrice is superior.


It is not realistic. I am "good with Computers" in that way, and it would be easier to do with MWS than with Cockatrice.
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adamf9898



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, I would like to state that I have actually paid the $30 to get my own serial for MWS.

I have been a fan of MWS for many years now and after using Cockatrice, MWS is a thing of the past.

MWS was a good program to start out with. Better than Apprentice in my own opinion.

The deck edit/creator in Cockatrice could be better though.

In overall, my answer is

Cockatrice
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jksorensen



Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking about getting back to magic league, primarily to play legacy. Is magic workstation still the program to use? I personally like cockatrice much better, bet i guess i can get mws just to play here if its still the standard.
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