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What happened to Magic-league?


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> General Magic-League Issues
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kamphgruppe



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:40 am    Post subject: Cockatrice Reply with quote

Cockatrice is so similar to Magicworkstation that is literally takes 5 min to learn to use it. Wizards sent the developer of Cockatrice a cease and desist order so it is not currently being supported by him. He has open sourced it as a multi game platform and asked for new people to develop it in that direction as opposed to strictly a MTG program. It may take a while before it is ready for magic league. It is a lot less buggy than MWS.
The reason I don't play on Magic-League anymore is that every time I play a competitive match the game bugs out and my opponent always says it my fault, then I end up losing because of it. I don't want to have to run to the judges every match and spend and extra 20 min figuring all that crap out, I just want the program to work. Usually this happens when I am close to winning and I simply grew tired of it.
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WhoamI



Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The user has been banned.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard rumors of that WhoAmI, but honestly, we're talking about over 5 years ago -- before I started playing. There are 3 things really along those lines that all add up to a sense that it may be true that is disheartening to new players.

First, judges really do just know the rules better than the average player, so they had *better* be right when they are called into judges for a ruling. Second, there are the true rumors that a long time ago there were dirty judges on ML - as far as we know, all of those have been purged. And last, but certainly not least, there are the people like you who insinuate that a player can't get a fair ruling even though you know it isn't true.
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Jacois



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that about answers that. I was half expecting just nobody to respond.
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember, those dirty judges all to well. Just about everyone of them hated me because I was pretty vocal about what I thought of many of them. It was a skill in itself learning how to handle them because it was hard to suceed on ml with out being wise to there various tricks.

Game losses for what should be warnings, re rolling flips claiming there was a fault with the system, trying to provide dodegy rulings on there own mini's. Taking you to judges4you accusing you of cheating them after they had just cheated you and using the counter accusation to force through the cheat. Telling you have to draw in masters if you can not host and do not have MWS, when back then you were suppose to flip when all they needed was a draw to top8 but a draw would see me finish 9th, that was my first apprentice tournament as well, little did i know. Asking provocative questions like are you accusing a judge of cheating? Constantly trying to provoke you to lose your rag, so they can give you the game loss. Sometimes you just had to get out of judges4you asap because you knew they had just called you in hoping you would say something they could get you dqed for.

Handling those people was just not worth it. It stresses you out, pisses you off and just makes you cynical. TBH it was the same in the ptq's when i played them there were some players who were just looking to cheat you and be an **** every second though there were also many nice people. I just could'nt be bothered with handling people like that on ml or real life in the end. modo is more simple.
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judges cannot rule on their own matches, and never could. If there is a problem of any kind in your match, bring it to the attention of #judges4you instead of mumbling it out with yourself. When noone is called attention to a problem, it never comes to the sunlight.

In the past 3-4 years, I haven't seen major problems with judges that are still in their position. I don't believe "the corrupt judges" are the problem.
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sandoiche
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it just got easier to people to play MTGO?

It's not my case, I stopped playing as much as I did here in M-L due to IRL stuff...

About the MWS thing, it's just people don't really know how to use the software. 99% of the bugs are caused by players (like arrow/switching controller/F2ing at the same time). Even stuff like secure code issues can be solved by editing card names and such.
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sandoiche wrote:
Maybe it just got easier to people to play MTGO?

It's not my case, I stopped playing as much as I did here in M-L due to IRL stuff...

About the MWS thing, it's just people don't really know how to use the software. 99% of the bugs are caused by players (like arrow/switching controller/F2ing at the same time). Even stuff like secure code issues can be solved by editing card names and such.


Those problems are indeed better solved by asking about it instead of going like OMG THIS IS SHIT I HATE YOU ALL THIS PROGRAM SUCKS YOURE ALL CHEATERS
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was like 8 years ago I'm talking about to clear. I have hardly played the league recently but when I did I had no problems.
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DeadGuyRed



Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played in ML probably 8 or 9 years ago. Well, I played in E-League first then moved over. The gaming scene offers so many other free games which is one of the reasons why there has been a decrease in the number of players here.

Although MTGO is nice to play on, I refuse to put money into buying electronic cards. Screw. That. If I'm putting money into MTG, I'm getting the actual card!!

Long live ML!!! Very Happy
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Weedmonkey



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 324

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll avoid ranting on some of the things posted here except for saying this: the judge department, collectively, is neither corrupt, nor rules in the favour of other judges. Now, I can only comment on my time as a judge on Magic-League (since the start of 2009), but I have never had an issue with a judge's ruling on one of my matches for as long as I've been on M-L. Players during a ruling are often emotionally charged, and this causes horrific tunnel vision. Judges are able to view the whole situation and rule without being burdened by having a stake in the outcome of the match.

That being said, not all judges are perfect, and I've seen the whole gamut (from judges who simply get it wrong, to judges who have been DQed, to judges who have been suspended for unprofessional conduct).

If players want to see M-L grow again, there are a few things that need to happen:

* More effort to retain new players
* Support for other applications need to be implemented (I asked for help on implementing security codes for another application, got a whole bunch of code I'm supposed to find time to work through)
* More judges
* More tournaments (which we've taken steps towards by lowering the minimum number of players for minis to 4)
* A recruitment plan to attract new players (whilst ensuring we keep to our agreement with WotC/Hasbro of course).

Of the above, recruitment and retaining of players is the most important. With a larger player base, the lifting of the rest becomes much easier. How this is achieved is something that I think we need to discuss collectively as a community.

An important thing to note is that staff no longer have the time to sink into projects that previous staff members once had. When the site first separated from magic4you.nu and became its own thing, the staff members then (particularly Alex and Koen, but also possible nico and Dirkjan) had large amounts of spare time they could afford to sink into developing M-L, and had the skills to work on developing a range of things. This isn't quite so true these days. For me personally, trying to balance a job with study with other IRL commitments means I've got very little spare time compared to when I first became staff. This means that for anything beyond trivial changes, the community collectively needs to lift and share the workload.
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shadowist



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weedmonkey, how is progress on cockatrice?
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Weedmonkey



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 324

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was given a whole bunch of code, and I do not have a weekend to sit down and work through it. Until such time as someone else steps up and actually tells me what the steps are in implementing the hash, there won't be any implementation on the current website.
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darkwizard42
Level 2 Judge


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss you guys terribly. I remember we were very active between 2008-2010. Some of us just got older and moved on, I still play some limited from time to time.

Shoutout to Flippi, coboney, Tidus and Weed for being some of the cool people on the league!
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mishimakaz



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I became less active on Magic-League mainly because I took a few months off from Magic to focus on my studies. However when my studies became less intense I decided to play less competitively and at the same time I started getting into Magic Online since I had money to spare on a deck.
A few months later I went "infinite" on MODO and then a year later I started graduate school for my PhD studies. Since I work 10 to 7, I only have time for 7 to 11 to play online Magic and I can get more games in during those 4 or less hours.

Additionally MODO is more profitable (the whole tickets to cash thing). So if I only have less than 4 hours to play Magic every day, I am naturally going to choose the one that lets me get more games in with more profit and also lets me multitask as well (study/grade assignments/read publications).

Just a view point that may spark some interest on how to make Magic-League perhaps a bit more competitive.
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