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Junk Midrange: Problems with Mono-Black



 
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Hephaestus



Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Junk Midrange: Problems with Mono-Black Reply with quote

Junk-Midrange Decklist
// Lands
4 [A] Forest (1)
2 [A] Swamp (2)
3 [GP] Godless Shrine
4 [RAV] Temple Garden
3 [THS] Temple of Silence
4 [BNG] Temple of Plenty
4 [RTR] Overgrown Tomb

// Creatures
4 [M14] Elvish Mystic
4 [RTR] Desecration Demon
4 [THS] Sylvan Caryatid
3 [DGM] Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 [BNG] Courser of Kruphix

// Spells
2 [DGM] Advent of the Wurm
1 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
3 [RTR] Golgari Charm
3 [RTR] Underworld Connections
1 [THS] Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 [RTR] Ultimate Price
4 [THS] Hero's Downfall
1 [BNG] Fated Intervention

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DGM] Advent of the Wurm
SB: 1 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 [RTR] Golgari Charm
SB: 1 [RTR] Underworld Connections
SB: 4 [M13] Duress
SB: 2 [THS] Dark Betrayal
SB: 3 [GTC] Devour Flesh
SB: 2 [THS] Thoughtseize

I usually do pretty well against control with underworld connections, flash tokens, and golgari charm to regen from supreme or destroy a detention sphere. Heros Downfall for Jace or Elspeth.

Ramp into Demon or Blood Baron or Advent usually give me an edge against aggro to. A decent removal package and 4 Centaur slow them down as well and i can usually stabilize and take over the game.

Devour is essential sb for me cuz its my only answer for blood baron but Advent and Underworld can probably come out since i already side 4 duress and 2 thoughtseize sometime abrupt and/or 4th Charm. So Advent on top of all that seems really overkill, basically my whole board. Advent Helps me Keep a Board Presents against mid-range. I should probably make some room for Selesnya Charm too Right? vs Mid-range seems to be good except against Dragon. I kinda wanted drown aslo against the random heroic decks running around to but sb is getting really packed really quick.

I am just have a problem beating mono-black. Pack Rat turn 2 if i dont answer kills me and Nightviel risks hitting My good black removal and underworld. Not to mention it makes my centaur worse because if i play the land on top i risk giving them a spell or if i leave the land they can just play it. only good if there is a spell they cant cast but then im still in same predicament next turn with the centaur.

Usually I board in 2 Dark Betrayal and 3 Devour and maybe another Abrupt. Usually take out 1 Mystic, 1 Carytid, Fated Intervention, Elspeth, 1 Golgari Charm and the other card varies.

Am i doing this wrong? do I need more Dark Betrayal? or maybe more Thoughtseize and Bring them in? i Thought about siding out charm but it can couter there kill spells or kill and early pack rat or underworld connections. Maybe A 4th Baron in the side? if they done get devour they really cant beat it and if i leave in Mystic and Carytid it will be harder for them to hit it with the devour without wasting good removal on mana dorks.

I really like this deck i want it to do well. Be cool if you guys could help


Thanks
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Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get rid of Elvish Mystic and Sylvan Caryatid. Half of your lands are temples so your first turn Mystic is rarely gonna happen and turn 2 you could be doing better things than dropping ramp.

Get rid of Underworld, Elspeth, and Courser (Courser is bad, don't play him, ever).

You'll want to up Blood Baron to 4, Advent to 4, run 4 Pack Rat (maybe keep Underworld Connections, hell, I don't know), and probably up the count on the abrupt decay to 4 or put them entirely in your sideboard as most the time, it's a dead card.

There's no reason to not run the full set of shock lands and temples.


I don't know man, I don't think this deck is very good nor do I really know how I would try to build it. Sorry if this isn't too helpful.
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Hephaestus



Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah not really what I was looking for but thanks for the post.

I am not looking to disassemble the deck or overhaul it, maybe not even any changes to the main deck. Just some tweaks and sideboard alterations. I like the way it plays and I have relatively good success with it.

Just need a way to win more against mono-black. What are some good strategies against the deck? if your playing G,W, or Black what is you general game plan and what are the best sideboard cards against this deck?
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so you've taken the mono black shell and adapted it a bit. But why? What match up's have you improved by adding what you have to the deck?

Your a lot weaker to verdict for sure. But your deck looks capable of being more explosive and slightly more powerful. Is this your intention if so once again why?

The unusal card's you have added why have you added them? Golgari charm, fated intervention, courser. What decks cards makes you want to include these cards in your main deck?

Infest can do some work against pack rat. Pithing needle on the rat they have no answer for. Have you considered running pack rat yourself?
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Hephaestus



Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the ramp because I want to get to my threats faster. I feel that some decks just have a very hard time winning against a turn 4 demon or even a wurm token. Especially with decent removal.

I feel this is much stronger against control matchups because of the ability to flash Advent or Fated Intervention token at EOT to get damage. Because of the caryatid Courser and removal package I usually don't get overwhelmed by explosive aggro decks.

Sure verdict hits my ramp guys so sometime I lose a couple more creatures but with main deck golgari charm I can prevent myself from being blown out. with the ramp I can usually drop a demon and still have mana for a charm while they only have enough mana for a verdict. Charm also kills detention sphere against control or clears Elspeth tokens for me to kill her via damage necessary. against Rakdos aggro or BW Humans it kills there 1 toughness creatures quickly and at instant speed. Against Mono-Black it kills early pack rats and underworld connections or can even regen a creature from one of there kills spells if really necessary.

Courser helps me against control because I can drop him early and he allow me to remove dead land draws from the top of my deck which in turn usually means I don't miss land drops and lets me get ahead. him comboing with scrylands really helps me dig for answers and if I have underworld connections out it offsets the life loss and helps dig even better. I can just keep attacking for 2 and they usually waste a sphere on it or I just kill the sphere with charm and keep attacking. Against aggro he a 2/4 body that helps my draws and gains me life.

I understand this deck has some things in common with mono-black and that Mono-Black is a beast of a deck. I am not trying to build a better version of mono-black.

I have thought about Drown in Sorrow but it only kills pack rat and only if they only have 2 in play. Pithing needle could work but that also still has the issue of getting out before the pack rat is a problem. if I don't draw it early it doesn't help.

I am considering running pack rat but I don't feel it fits with the deck as nicely as mono-black. So if I am going to try to squeeze the rat in I will need to support it with some of the other stuff mono black runs but then im just playing mono-black.

I think a couple of copies of bile blight might help as it kills up to 3 copies of rat if they don't have a mutavault and at least it also hits neightviel specter and mutavault.

My goal is to come up with a game plan vs mono-black primarily out of the sideboard with some minor maindeck tweaks if necessary
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, that's good. Mono blacks's biggest weakness is enchantments or, artifacts they have no way of answering them. If you can find one they can not beat all you have to do it stick one and you win. For example assemble the legion just straight out beats mono black.

If you can find one which attacks them in your colours, that may work I think there is a 6 mana one in green that puts +1+1 counters on something when you play a certain type of spell and beasts into play when you play another type of spell. That may cause them problems.

If not you can always try playing extra elspeths and pulling the heros downfalls out of hand with discard. May, may not work is a bit of a strech of a plan but is something worth trying.

Pack rat, is just a case of packing enough answers bile blight actually seems by far the best one to me forgot about that. That plus abrupt decay as it doubles on connections and gets specter seems strong.

The match up can also be attrition based connection wars, so run the full suite of them in the board. They may well bring in erobos also I think there is new white spell in BTG, which exiles enchantments, if this card proves to be a problem that is a solution.
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Hephaestus



Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've thought about trying to side in my discard spells and add more removal to the board and try to win the 1 for 1 battle but that seems like a coin flip strategy.

Revoke existence is the card your looking for as an answer to erebos.

I am going to see what artifacts and enchantments are in these colors that maybe people haven't thought of.

I might even go the route of siding in my discard and trying to win via planes walkers.
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doc_morriar



Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the enchantment that green bear is referring to is primeval bounty

Seems like it could be solid..
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