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Why Last Breath?



 
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Why Last Breath? Reply with quote

Hi,

Talking about actual Standard,
I noticed that almost every deck where you can possible use Last Breath is using it, most of them a full set...

My question is, why is this card so good? Even on decks with black mana and without creatures where you can use it to gain the life yourself...
I can't really see how good this card is, specially when you have access to other removals that don't have the "2 power or less" restriction nether the 4 life to your opponent...

Yes, I know that it exiles the creature, and it's cheap... But I don't see that much "2 power or less" creatures on actual T2 that must be exiled deserving the 4 life you're giving, and couldn't be dealt with by any other removal... I can think about Voice of Resurgence but that's all, and I guess all that Last Breath copies aren't cause of it!

If you could help me figure out why is this card so used and explain me its potential, I really appreciated!

Thanks,
cHaKaL-PT
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Alpha_n1



Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It removes, sttoping grave effect such as whip/ooze/others.

for the cost of 2 mana you have devour flesh, ultimate price and doom blade.

but this one kills: master of waves, nightveil specter, mutavault, pack rat, others. that are VERY relevant threat both in early, mid and late game.

lastely. you almost never care about the 4 or 8 life you give to your oponent. your pack rats or desecration demons eat that life gain in 1 or 2 turn, your elspeth eats that in 1 or 2 turn.


And this is the story of last breath. doom blade and ultimate price are not reliable in all m/u's.
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coboney



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well thats because there are a lot of relevant 2 power creatures in the format and because control decks really don't care about the extra 4 life. It Exiles, which is not inconsiderable and its cheap white targetted removal without being multicolour making it available to a variety of decks.

Key threats at power two or less include: Master of Waves, Mutavault, Nightveil Specter, Pack Rat (Sometimes), Xanthrid Necromancer, Frostburn Weird, Ash Zealot, Soldier of the Pantheon, Voice of Resurgeance, Scavaging Ooze, Mana Dorks, Deathrite Shaman, Chandra's Pheonix and various other 1-3 mana creatures.

Basically a lot of the relevant threats are hit by it. Your other option in white at 2 mana is Celestial Flare which doesn't remove, and doesn't target (for better and worst) the creature. Branching out you have Lightning Strike (Doesn't get Master, Weird and doesn't Exile), Magma Jet (Same as Strike but doesn't get Specter), Devour Flesh (Doesn't target but thats both good and bad. Its at its best vs midrange), Doom Blade (Nonblack matters via Xathrid, Specter, Deathrite and the non-exile bit again but it also competes with general removal) and Ultimate Price (Competes directly with Doom Blade as limited big removal for two mana)

Basically it comes down to the fact that control decks need a quick early patch answer and Last Breath is the one that best fits the current metagame. Its not a strong card in a vaccum but given this pool of cards and this metagame its become a card that has become a staple glue card for control.

And if you aren't really warmed up to it - just look back over the last few months and you'll see that last breath's play has been slowly picking up. Thats because on the face it looks worst then it is in this situation and people took time to warm to it.
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sc4rs



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because it's the 2 mana, instant speed removal spell that is effective against more of Mono-U Devotion and Mono-B devotion's threats than any other, and those two are two of the best decks in the format.

Killing Pack Rat, Nightveil Specter, Master of Waves, and Mutavault is something no other 2 mana cost removal spell can do.
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coboney



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you forgot the white decks but....

On the whole sc4rs I think you summed up what everyone else was saying wonderfully in a lot less space.
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AxiomBlurr



Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is also has nice synergy with Jace...
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboney wrote:
It Exiles, which is not inconsiderable and its cheap white targetted removal without being multicolour making it available to a variety of decks.
(...)
Basically a lot of the relevant threats are hit by it. Your other option in white at 2 mana is Celestial Flare which doesn't remove, and doesn't target (for better and worst) the creature.

Yes, about that specific situation I already had seen its potential... I was mostly wondering about decks where you have mana to be able to choose between Last Breath and other usual removals, like Esper, Orzhov, Junk, and maybe others... That's where I have some difficult to see how good Last Breath is against the other possible removals! It's not all about the 4 life giving, but the "2 power conditioned"... I'm still thinking that I would prefer having for example a Hero's Downfall that costs more, needs double B, and do not exile, but on the other hand, it can deal with the same threats as Last Breath and much much more... Because at the end, I think I prefer to have a Hero's Downfall on hand after taking the 2 damage from the creatures I couldn't dealt earlier, then later in game having a 6/6 Desecration Demon attacking and a Last Breath on hand...
My point is, later game, you would be able to cast other removals and Last Breath won't going to do much for you...

Anyway, I totally missed the point about how many 2 power creatures are being used at the actual T2, and you make your point really well with a very good creatures' list that starts to make sense to me about using Last Breath! And just like
sc4rs wrote:
Because it's the 2 mana, instant speed removal spell that is effective against more of Mono-U Devotion and Mono-B devotion's threats than any other, and those two are two of the best decks in the format.
and even Mono-R Devotion too...

So...
Ok, I get it... But I still don't think that Last Breath would be that good if you don't get it earlier on game, or without other "big threats removals" to back it up... Anyway, that's only my opinion, and YES, I'm starting to see why Last Breath deserves its place on decks where you can have "better" removals!

Thanks for your answers and/or opinions, I really appreciated!
And please, be my guest to continue the discussion if you had anything to add to what already had been said, or if you disagree with anything, obviously!
Thank you all!
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AxiomBlurr wrote:
It is also has nice synergy with Jace...
Sorry about the noob here... But I didn't get it! lol
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboney wrote:
Well thats because there are a lot of relevant 2 power creatures in the format and because control decks really don't care about the extra 4 life. It Exiles, which is not inconsiderable and its cheap white targetted removal without being multicolour making it available to a variety of decks.

Key threats at power two or less include: Master of Waves, Mutavault, Nightveil Specter, Pack Rat (Sometimes), Xanthrid Necromancer, Frostburn Weird, Ash Zealot, Soldier of the Pantheon, Voice of Resurgeance, Scavaging Ooze, Mana Dorks, Deathrite Shaman, Chandra's Pheonix and various other 1-3 mana creatures.

Basically a lot of the relevant threats are hit by it. Your other option in white at 2 mana is Celestial Flare which doesn't remove, and doesn't target (for better and worst) the creature. Branching out you have Lightning Strike (Doesn't get Master, Weird and doesn't Exile), Magma Jet (Same as Strike but doesn't get Specter), Devour Flesh (Doesn't target but thats both good and bad. Its at its best vs midrange), Doom Blade (Nonblack matters via Xathrid, Specter, Deathrite and the non-exile bit again but it also competes with general removal) and Ultimate Price (Competes directly with Doom Blade as limited big removal for two mana)

Basically it comes down to the fact that control decks need a quick early patch answer and Last Breath is the one that best fits the current metagame. Its not a strong card in a vaccum but given this pool of cards and this metagame its become a card that has become a staple glue card for control.

And if you aren't really warmed up to it - just look back over the last few months and you'll see that last breath's play has been slowly picking up. Thats because on the face it looks worst then it is in this situation and people took time to warm to it.


damn thats pretty much it. nothing else to say lock forum we are done here lol
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chakal-PT wrote:
AxiomBlurr wrote:
It is also has nice synergy with Jace...
Sorry about the noob here... But I didn't get it! lol


jaces +1 ability makes all your opponets creatures attacking -1/-0 till the begining of your next turn. it makes 3/3s 2/3s so they are last breathable
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___



Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, that synergy doesn't come up that often imo.
The only 3power creature I can think of right now is lifebane zombie.

Chakal-pt, 2 or 3 mana is really relevant.
If not, then why last year didn't every jund list play only putrefy and murder as removal? Why bother with situational cards like decay/tragic slip/ultimate price/doom blade etc? It has always been like that.

Even more so this format. If you're on the draw, and your answer to pack rat is hero's downfall, you're pretty much dead. If your only removal against monoU is downfall, you're not doing anything till turn 4 thanks to familiar.
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SylentNyte



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can lose to Sligh if they get a good enough draw. For example, it's a good response to Madcap Skills (or Titan's Strength, even) on a Rakdos Cackler/Tormented Hero/Spike Jester etc. (Doom Blade can't kill these and they can be threatening as early as turn 2). It stops Xanthid Necromancer without setting off his ability. It stops Pack Rat, which is worth them gaining four life.
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