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Gods and Entering the Battlefield



 
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Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:33 am    Post subject: Gods and Entering the Battlefield Reply with quote

If a God enters the battlefield but you don't have the devotion for it to be a creature, does it still trigger any "whenever a creature enters the battlefield" effects, and if not, what are the technical things happening here.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it is a creature as a spell, but it is not a creature on the battlefield, so it will not trigger abilities which trigger upon a creature entering the battlefield.
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Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you go through step-by-step and explain what happens there?
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SteveOB



Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will trigger stuff that says cast a creature spell
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pg8



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 299

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While it is on the battlefield, it has an ability that says "this isn't a creature". There isn't a point where it is a creature on the battlefield and then changes to being a not-creature. You can't have a creature enter the battlefield if that object isn't a creature while it's on the battlefield.
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Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'm asking here is for someone to break down the interactions from the resolution of the god spell to the point when state-based actions are checked. You guys aren't being specific enough for me to learn what is happening here and, more importantly, why it is happening.
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moscowdemon
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no breakdown. It simply leaves the stack and immediately is on the battlefield as a non-creature. Think of it as a true/false program. If devotion is met, true, it is a creature. If devotion is not met, false, it is not a creature. The rules don't cover any moment in-between. Static abilities are just true/false.
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WildCard
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 802
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

moscowdemon is correct. Think of it this way: if you do not meet the devotion requirements then it is not a creature on the battlefield at any time because of the wording of the card. It's not triggered, it just is. if an ability checks to see if a creature entered the battlefield, at any given point when it checks it will not be a creature. Just like if you had.. cant remeber the name. the white creature that lets you draw card if the power of a creature entering the battlefield is 1 or less. if you had an anthem effect going, say +2/+2 to all creatures then at no time is your 1/1 creature spell not a 3/3 on the battlefield.
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Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, the Anthem analogy helped clear that up a lot, thanks. I think my disconnect was I was thinking that things that count devotion, like Reverent Hunter, also count the devotion of itself when it's in play, so to me, it seemed like it would enter the battlefield as a creature and then not change back until the next time state-based actions were checked.

Thanks for the help guys.
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adventur_



Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does count its own mana for devotion. If you have devotion 4 and cast a god, it will enter as a creature.
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Kaesh



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 376

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a bit late, but the rules issue here is pretty much entirely caused by confusing state-based actions with continuous effects.
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