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Cheating on MWS



 
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Cheating on MWS Reply with quote

After multiple games, I realize that there are a considerable number of players that cheats using a very simple technique, Not Shuffling his or her deck after looking at it for whatever reason!

Nothing new, in fact! The curious thing, is that after playing a series of games, I realize that this simple cheat happens a lot more then I thought! More then 74% to be exact, at some point in the game, don't shuffle the library, knowing exactly what cards are drawing next!

But, to be able to do this kind of cheat, the player needs the opponent approval, obviously! It just takes a little of attention to see that your opponent didn't shuffle his or her library after looking at it!
What leads me to the next test:
-Is that easy cheating without your opponent seeing that you didn't shuffle your deck?

I started to play a lot of games, and in each of every single game, I did this kind of cheat! And the results surprised me in the worst way possible! I can say for sure, that in 97,6% of every game I played, my opponent didn't noticed nothing!
I used "Farseek" for most of the tests, and there was a situation where I even take an illegal land to play, said "sorry", added it to the bottom, and then take the land from "Farseek", closed the library without shuffling, without any problem! And just like that I now have the card I want to draw next instead of the land that I had to draw first... And I also know what cards are next too!

97,6% of the players don't pay attention to this, what in my opinion makes me think about it!

Just pay attention, look to the log, or just listen to that sound of shuffling the deck! Don't make it so easy to your opponents making fool of you, and cheat right on your face!


(For those who think that this could happen without the intention to cheat, just take a look on what you need to do in order not to shuffle the deck when you close the library! If you think that such thing could happen, it's your judgment! Personally, when someone do this, and say "sorry" after I ask him to shuffle, I don't really think for a second that that wasn't on purpose! Nether should you!)
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This seems very easy to notice. It also runs the risk of a judge noticing it if you get called in for even the simplest query.
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_Godica



Joined: 26 Nov 2012
Posts: 254

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Were you gathering this data in casual games, or league/tournament matches?

If it was casual games, it doesn't matter. I don't pay nearly as much attention in casual matches, I tab out constantly, have side conversations, etc. that I would not do in a game that mattered. Also more people cheat (maliciously and just via ignorance of rules) in casual games.

If it was gathered in league/tournament matches, sounds like you need to be banned.
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EJLV



Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you open your library by "Look at library" when you close it, it automatically shuffles. But when you open it by "Look at top cards" it doesnt get shuffled.
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EJLV wrote:
When you open your library by "Look at library" when you close it, it automatically shuffles. But when you open it by "Look at top cards" it doesnt get shuffled.


Yes, obviously when you look at top X cards of library it doesn't shuffle for obvious reasons! When you really open your library, it needs you to intensional choose not to shuffle, that's why the "sorry, my mistake" shouldn't work... Wink


_Godica wrote:
Were you gathering this data in casual games, or league/tournament matches?

If it was casual games, it doesn't matter. I don't pay nearly as much attention in casual matches, I tab out constantly, have side conversations, etc. that I would not do in a game that mattered. Also more people cheat (maliciously and just via ignorance of rules) in casual games.

If it was gathered in league/tournament matches, sounds like you need to be banned.



All the games where I tried and achieved that percentage were from casual games, for obvious reasons too!

The 74% that I first achieved were both from casual and league games! When I noticed that this kind of thing happens more then I thought and decided to save all results, I started with casual games for motives of time and for easily start more matches!
And yes, the numbers are related to the kind of game, league or casual! What I was trying to see, is how frequent this situation was, and although the game being casual, the rules are the same, and cheating, is cheating! Correct if I'm wrong, but you don't start to cheat when you play casual games, do you? Only difference is that there aren't official consequences for it when you do it on casual games! It's all about the moral involved, the respect for the game and for the opponent, and the reasons that make a player cheat to win a casual game are even worst then a league game....
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archmage521



Joined: 09 Apr 2010
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the problem I have with the statement that 74% of magic-leaguers cheay using a "simple cheat". Is that you can see when they dont shuffle their library. Most people pay very close attention to the chat. It seems to me that A) your sample size is off or B) you were cheating and you wanted people to recognize that you got away with it.
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure he's highlighting a common way of cheating to spread awareness and make the game fairer for everyone. Or he would not have made this thread.
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GuitarDude



Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 227

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every time i look at my library it shuffles unless I search my library in which is not suppose too. The only way you could cheat that way would be to put total number of cards in library and then not shuffle after. that would be obvious if you choose to look at 45 cards instead of my Library
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Uroboros



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did that once Embarassed in a tourney game also (and i lost the game so im bad at cheating) but yup, cheating is in human behaviour and also your brain is only trained to perceive what you focus on... a message in the log when youre focused on a hard game is easy to miss.
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remind you:
If you suspect your opponent is cheating or just want to ensure what he does is legal, bring the issue to #judges4you .
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