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format rules.



 
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: format rules. Reply with quote

We had abit of a issue today with the Eternal Pauper. no one reallyt knew what it was.....we have a issue were the site

http://www.magic-league.com/guide/other_formats.php#Pauper

is conflicting with

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=magic/rules/Pauper

we need better clarification for a event when the league rules conflict with wizards rules, for example.

According to wizards rules, hymn to Tourach is ILLEGAL, since it was never printed on modo as a common, however, by our rules its legal. also death spark for example, by our rules is ILLEGAL since it was never printed as a common in paper, but legal by MODO since it was a common in Masters edition. Formats like this Do need better clarification.

also the 2 ban lists are not matching up at all. It was like no one was following the same set of rules today. any input on how to improve this or updating our league rules would be appreciated. i love fun formats like this. but we need concistant rules.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expected to find an official link for you, but since I was unable to, I will get this added to the Floor Rules ASAP. Magic-league attempts to mirror DCI policy **wherever possible**, however we are on magic-league and NOT sanctioned by DCI rules, so if they ever disagree, ML rules are always correct.

For your particular question this means that if a set is pretend, it is not a set. No one cares whether it was printed on MODO only, nor does it matter that a card was NEVER printed on MODO.
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Kabelis



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would personally prefer if format just mirrored the official format on MTGO (both banlist and card legality). There really isn't a pauper format outside of MTGO anyway.

The official bans are reasonable (infect and storm are silly) and I'm sure if something like Hymn to Tourach was legal on MTGO, it would have been banned either way.
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StarWolf



Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kabelis wrote:
I would personally prefer if format just mirrored the official format on MTGO (both banlist and card legality). There really isn't a pauper format outside of MTGO anyway.

The official bans are reasonable (infect and storm are silly) and I'm sure if something like Hymn to Tourach was legal on MTGO, it would have been banned either way.


Agreed - I think this was briefly discussed awhile ago and most people favoured just using the same rules as MODO pauper. It's not exactly hard - just check if a card has ever been printed at common from Mirage onward, and if not, check if it was printed common in the masters edition sets.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want the rules to match the MODO format, talk to Wizards. They say the rule is anything printed at common. We use that and they don't, so who really needs to fix their rules?

Now there are a couple of cards which have been added to the banlist which should have been updated here but were not(Invigorate I believe - maybe one more?). It's not a commonly played format, and stuff happens.
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M-L rules overrule DCI/Wotc rules in case of a dispute between them, on magic-league.
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flippi, how about masters edition, would that count towards cards printed at common, ie death spark printed at uncommon in paper, but common in masters edition?
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brianhri
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like we should use the printings from paper only seeing as many people don't use modo, but I feel almost everyone has played paper.
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Kabelis



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My argument to simply using MTGO legality/banlist is because online it's a recognized format with daily decklists being posted and so on.. There's really no sanctioned pauper IRL.

Different isn't necessarily bad, but when it's *this* close to the official format with a difference of few cards here and there, diverging from it seems unnecessary.
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Masters Edition is not a printed edition. Therefore cards in it were not printed anywhere.
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CMA-Flippi wrote:
Masters Edition is not a printed edition. Therefore cards in it were not printed anywhere.


can we make that clear in the section of rules? since alot of decks online use masters edition commons that are NOT common otherwise.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

warwizard, it is there man.......that is what I've been saying all along.
Quote:
must have been printed at the common rarity

http://www.magic-league.com/guide/other_formats.php#Pauper

Kabelis, imagine if we were to do what you are suggesting. We would have not only an extra banlist of every card printed before MODO(but not reprints!). We would also have a separate "not banned" list of cards which weren't real or weren't commons, but could be used anyway. You are thinking there are only 2 cards difference because those are the big important ones.
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StarWolf



Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xJudicatorx wrote:
warwizard, it is there man.......that is what I've been saying all along.
Quote:
must have been printed at the common rarity

http://www.magic-league.com/guide/other_formats.php#Pauper

Kabelis, imagine if we were to do what you are suggesting. We would have not only an extra banlist of every card printed before MODO(but not reprints!). We would also have a separate "not banned" list of cards which weren't real or weren't commons, but could be used anyway. You are thinking there are only 2 cards difference because those are the big important ones.


The online format has a very well-established metagame and very few pre-Mirage cards would be played, while very few master's edition cards were printed at a different rarity pre-Mirage. It's just silly to act as if it would be MORE confusing to align M-L's pauper format with the one widely played on mtgo. Just make it so that the card has to have been printed at common at some point during or after Mirage, or in one of the master's edition sets. Anyone can easily search for all the commons in master's edition with a gatherer search, it's not hard. At the very least, ban hymn to tourach on M-L..

Quote:

Kabelis, imagine if we were to do what you are suggesting. We would have not only an extra banlist of every card printed before MODO(but not reprints!). We would also have a separate "not banned" list of cards which weren't real or weren't commons, but could be used anyway. You are thinking there are only 2 cards difference because those are the big important ones.


Man, how do formats like Modern even exist? It must be so confusing to ban every card prior to 8th edition, but NOT ban reprints. How do people build decks for such a confusing format with such a long banlist? Is rancor legal in modern or not? My brain can't handle this, please simplify the format for me.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rule is simple. "Any card printed at common." You are really trying to unnecessarily complicate it just so you can netdeck.
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