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Time to get rid of the "minibeg" rule for good.


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> General Magic-League Issues

Should minibeg become allowed?
Yes
47%
 47%  [ 16 ]
no
32%
 32%  [ 11 ]
Bananas
20%
 20%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 34

Author Message
GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uroboros wrote:
again... what about a queue bot that DOES the beg? i mean, if 8 people at least send a request to join a mini, the bot sends a request to judges channel, maybe wont solve the lack of minis when there are no judges, but it will give judges the information about the tourneys players want to play, and people will feel that they have a say in the channel.


That is actually a reasonable idea, as I'm sure it would hide some of the uglier parts of mini begging. At first when you said bot I think most people assumed it would also be running minis but just to reflect the needs of the community I like that.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I would be most appreciative if someone would run a type 2 mini if they have the time.


Even if phrased politely, it's still rude. If I freaking HAD the time to run a mini, I would DO it. I'm not running one right now, so clearly I'm too busy. Minibegging even in the mildest form is just a way to point out that I should feel bad because I'm not doing what you think I should be doing (which is, of course, running whichever type of mini you want at the moment).
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your looking at that the wrong way. I'm not asking because that's what I think you should be doing, but because it's what I would like to do, so I'm letting you know about it and wondering if any judges are feeling the same way. Kind of like when a guy asks his girlfriend for sex;)

I think Uroboros suggestion solves a lot the issues though, as well as providing ml with an invaluable information tool about their users. Assuming it is easy to program which i know nothing about, the more I think about the idea the more I like it.

And for the record I do not play here anymore so I'm not arguing for selfish reason's. I just think it would be sad if magic league died out, I would not be the magic player I am today with out this league.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you will not understand until you are a judge. If you really think that, you are a very inconsiderate person.
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think what? I appreciate individual differences as much as anyone or try to I'm not exactly a 'normal person'. But I would be surprised if most judges feel the way you do about mini begging(which I assume you are referring to). Honestly its just the same as asking a girl for sex and what a terrible place the world would be if we could not ask girls for sex!!!!

We have all been put in situations where we want to do something but are not able to due to time constraints, its a pretty common human experience. It's not that bad a feeling, though I except this maybe different for you. But if you do feel that bad about little things like that all the time I would suggest some Cognitive Behavior Therapy because you are looking at things in a very negative light.

Anyway I'm done with this thread. I think the results of the poll indicate that the powers that be should at least look at the arguments raised and take some deep consideration about them.

All the Best
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pg8



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 299

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GreenBear wrote:
I would be surprised if most judges feel the way you do about mini begging


They do.
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StarWolf



Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the minibeg rule exactly? I get that people aren't allowed to minibeg, but what's the punishment for doing so? I don't think there should be a rule against it but if the punishment is just a kick from the channel for 10 seconds or a warning, then that's not a big deal.

As for whether this rule is going to ruin M-L or whatever - I just want to say as someone who has been on this site on and off for over 6 years, that this is silly. M-L has always gone through ups and downs, and during the school year you aren't going to see as many minis because the judges (who are people too, I know it's hard to believe) are naturally more busy. There's really not a huge difference between M-L now and back then, at least not one that I notice. People have complained about the lack of minis consistently for years (just check this article from 2008 - I'm sure there are even earlier examples: http://www.magic-league.com/article/423/in_case_of_disappearance.html) so I'm always skeptical of claims that the site is doomed. If anything the site has gotten better - the judges are noticeably more mature and less power-trippy, and we usually get two trials a day to plan our schedules around if we really need our fix. Most people who play real life magic probably go to one or two tournaments a week, so I think in between all the guaranteed trials and the slightly less guaranteed minis that get made, there are enough tournaments to satiate all but the most hardcore players.
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jdblack



Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about player-run 1:1 sealed league matches using m-l's sealed pool code? It would essentially be a 2-person sealed mini, probably wouldn't need much coding.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StarWolf: There is no proscribed punishment for it. Depending on the person's level of rudeness, history, and awareness of the rule - they could get anything from a verbal warning to stop to a short ban from the channel. A 30-60 minute ban is most common.


jdblack: This is an idea that has been brought up many times, and I believe the trouble is more a matter of no one wanting to take the time to code new stuff for the old site when the new site is under construction already. I think sealed league matches would be an awesome idea if we could get it coded. You CAN agree to build a sealed pool from a 3rd party site (using the honor system) and play a league match off of that.
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jdblack



Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got any details about the new site? Is it imminent, a long-standing project, etc.?
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdblack wrote:
Got any details about the new site? Is it imminent, a long-standing project, etc.?


When I first started playing in 09, it was 99% done.
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Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xJudicatorx wrote:
jdblack wrote:
Got any details about the new site? Is it imminent, a long-standing project, etc.?


When I first started playing in 09, it was 99% done.


All I want is for them to add sealed deck to the single matches spot.

You know how awesome that would be?
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't think this thread needs to be "minibegging: yes or no?" but more how to solve the lack of mini problem that, IS a issue. events don't fire, judges don';t make them, format issues were judges make events no one wants to play at that moment. ect ect whatever the reason. i see this as more of a problem solving thread at the moment. we need to identify what the issue is right now the issue is " not enough minis" first we need to identify the cause of this, then identify a solution that works and help implement it.

one possible solution is make it so events can fire with just 4 people, lets say it gives no team points and has a rel value = to single matches. this could increase the number of events that fire, which could bring back more people online?
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niknight



Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few thoughts:

1. Re: minibegging being rude- Minibegging is to judges as a child continually saying "Are we there yet?" to their parent. It serves absolutely no purpose (which is why it's considered spam, and not permitted in channel), and more than a few judges consider it rude because the people who did it the most, historically, are the same people who never even tried to become a judge and run their own.

2. Re: reduced mini counts - There are two primary reasons why we have reduced tournament counts. First, the whole C&D situation absolutely killed our player base (including the sites reporting we were DOA). Before the C&D we were firing off minis literally every 32 minutes. Looking at the data now, we are firing a mini every 2.7 hours. Secondly, our player base has gotten older. This means that people have other things to do (job, family, etc) so less minis for the active judges, and less players to put in those minis.

Now that we have finally finished the slow bleed (our player count is relatively consistent), we need to focus on rebuilding (as Weedmonkey said earlier). I would love to hear well thought out suggestions on how to accomplish this. Players outnumber judges/staff by a huge margin, so we are going to need you guys to get active.

3. The site code "is what it is" currently. While I see good suggestions to get more minis, they all require some recoding of the site, which is not going to happen. If I were to describe the condition of the code for the current site in one word, that word would be "minefield". The current site's code is being held together by bird droppings and duct tape, which means that it's not worth modifying to put some of these solutions into place.
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

niknight wrote:
A few thoughts:

1. Re: minibegging being rude- Minibegging is to judges as a child continually saying "Are we there yet?" to their parent. It serves absolutely no purpose (which is why it's considered spam, and not permitted in channel), and more than a few judges consider it rude because the people who did it the most, historically, are the same people who never even tried to become a judge and run their own.

2. Re: reduced mini counts - There are two primary reasons why we have reduced tournament counts. First, the whole C&D situation absolutely killed our player base (including the sites reporting we were DOA). Before the C&D we were firing off minis literally every 32 minutes. Looking at the data now, we are firing a mini every 2.7 hours. Secondly, our player base has gotten older. This means that people have other things to do (job, family, etc) so less minis for the active judges, and less players to put in those minis.

Now that we have finally finished the slow bleed (our player count is relatively consistent), we need to focus on rebuilding (as Weedmonkey said earlier). I would love to hear well thought out suggestions on how to accomplish this. Players outnumber judges/staff by a huge margin, so we are going to need you guys to get active.

3. The site code "is what it is" currently. While I see good suggestions to get more minis, they all require some recoding of the site, which is not going to happen. If I were to describe the condition of the code for the current site in one word, that word would be "minefield". The current site's code is being held together by bird droppings and duct tape, which means that it's not worth modifying to put some of these solutions into place.


Ouch the site is were the easy fixes lie, i am not exactly sure what to do with out it.honestly.
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