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Toxic behavior and impunity


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This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> General Magic-League Issues
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kami_kat



Joined: 01 Feb 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Toxic behavior and impunity Reply with quote

First of all I would like to say that probably I will be ignored for being new here but let's go:

Today I was playing a game with a guy extremely toxic
there is the log: http://www.magic-league.com/mllogger/show.php?id=6847

everything started at 264 0:01:16 (4)

Quote:
<metal_slime> its a fucking misclick
<metal_slime> and you say that
<metal_slime> but ok
<kami_kat> not my fault
<metal_slime> I did it
<metal_slime> no it isn't
<kami_kat> watch your actions
<kami_kat> End my turn
<metal_slime> lets see you make a mistake
<kami_kat> I dont, relax ^^
<metal_slime> yes
<metal_slime> you do
<metal_slime> you forgot to whip me last turn
<metal_slime> that was a mistake
<kami_kat> hahaha
<kami_kat> If I forgot
<metal_slime> but that's ok
<kami_kat> I dont try to cheat


Then suddenly the guy started clearly mad spamming 19 lines in 3 seconds:
Quote:
<metal_slime> your turn
<kami_kat> =)
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn
<metal_slime> End my turn


Then I asked the judge for something about this guy, but everything I got was that:

Quote:
[21:22] <kami_kat> my opponent started to spam "End my turn"
[21:22] <metal_slime> 19 times
[21:22] <metal_slime> you failed to take your turn
[21:22] <metal_slime> wasn't sure you noticed the first one
[21:23] <kami_kat> 19 times he clicked "End my turn"
[21:23] <%archmage521> and?
[21:23] <kami_kat> flood is legal?
[21:23] <%archmage521> what were you hoping to gain from coming here?
[21:23] * metal_slime (mslime@SolidIRCf3oj7s.lnngmi.sbcglobal.net) has left #judges4you ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
[21:23] <kami_kat> Im reporting someone for flooding
[21:23] <%archmage521> there is no penalty here.
[21:24] <kami_kat> so, flood is free on magic-league?
[21:24] <%archmage521> sigh.
[21:24] * metal_slime (mslime@SolidIRCf3oj7s.lnngmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #judges4you
[21:24] <%archmage521> go back to your game please.
[21:24] * metal_slime (mslime@SolidIRCf3oj7s.lnngmi.sbcglobal.net) has left #judges4you ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
[21:24] <kami_kat> The guy hit a button 19 times.
[21:24] <%archmage521> while i do not reccomend flooding
[21:25] <%archmage521> it didnt really have an impact on the game.


Then the game continued and the guy tried to cheat me over:

Quote:
<kami_kat> can you pay, please?
<metal_slime> I did
<metal_slime> I have 1 black mana still floating
<metal_slime> crypt ghast gives me a black mana every time I tap a land
<metal_slime> so I had 1w 1r 2b
<kami_kat> hahaha
<metal_slime> I used 1w 1r for tithes
<kami_kat> trying to cheat me again?


and over again:
Quote:
<metal_slime> double extort
<kami_kat> what is this
<metal_slime> double extort?
<kami_kat> you paid 1 black
<metal_slime> two black
<metal_slime> crypt ghast
<kami_kat> You should declare
<kami_kat> the triggers
<kami_kat> trying to cheat again? ...
<metal_slime> ok
<metal_slime> there ya go
<metal_slime> an extra white mana
<metal_slime> just for you
<kami_kat> thanks


I got angry and said something not sportsmanlike like he doesnt deserved to win. But, that was because I tried a help from a judge and just get ignored.

I have two considerations here:
1 - This game was so disgustful to play.
2 - The judges should be updated to the Penalty Guidelines of magic-league, expecifically with the Group 120-Unsuporting Conduct which can be read there: http://www.magic-league.com/info/penalty_guidelines.php#120
Quote:
120. Unsporting Conduct

Notes: The final authority on what level of unsporting conduct an action is covered by is the judge that applies the penalty. Secondly, unsporting conduct penalties will be additive during a 24 hour period regardless of severity.

Example: A player receives two Minor Unsporting Conduct penalties in one day - The second is upgraded to game loss.

Example: A player receives one Minor then one Major Unsporting Conduct penalty in one day - The Major Unsporting Conduct is upgraded from game loss to match loss.

121. Unsporting Conduct - Minor: A player commits an action that could be disruptive to the tournament or make one of its participants feel uncomfortable.

Examples:

1. A player uses excessive profanity during a match.
2. A player asks that a judge not rule their match, or appeals a ruling before it is given.
3. A player asks for his opponent to be penalized.
4. A player taunts their opponent.
5. A player fails to report the results of their matches.

Remedy: As part of the penalty, judges are to tell the player what the consequences will be for further infractions.

Penalty: Warning

122. Unsporting Conduct - Major: There are three major categories of major unsporting conduct. They are:

1. not accepting or following the instructions of a judge (including not joining #judges4you when asked).
2. Exhibitions of bigotry or intolerance.
3. Aggressive actions not directed at any person.

Example: A player argues with a judge over a ruling that was given after the judge instructs them to stop.

Remedy: Players committing this infraction may be banned at the discretion of a channel operator if this occurs in a league channel.

Penalty: Game Loss

123. Unsporting Conduct - Aggressive Behavior: Actions taken by a player which a judge deems as potentially threatening.

Examples:

1. A player threatens a player or judge.
2. A player flagrantly defies the instructions of a judge

Remedy: As part of this penalty, the user will also be banned from league channels for an extended period of time.

Penalty: Disqualification

124. Unsporting Conduct - Bribery and Wagering: A player offers anything in exchange for a result, or two players agree that the winner receive something after a match is played.

Example: A player offers to concede a number of casual matches for a concession in a Trial.

Remedy: Players guilty of Bribery will be banned from league channels.

Penalty: Disqualification

125. Unsporting Conduct - Randomly Determining a Winner: Both players agree to use some random method to determine the winner of a match. Flipping an apprentice match via #flips is the only exception to this rule.

Example: Two players decide to roll a die to determine who wins a match.

Remedy: The offending players will be banned from league channels.

Penalty: Disqualification


Thank you for reading.
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Steveman



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He should've gotten a warning, Archmage is still a new judge and just didn't know any better.
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metal_slime



Joined: 02 Nov 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I notice you also left out the part where I said I misread the card. And then tapped two additional land to pay for. But yea, since all you're trying to do is attack me, why would you put that part in.
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kami_kat



Joined: 01 Feb 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

metal_slime wrote:
I notice you also left out the part where I said I misread the card. And then tapped two additional land to pay for. But yea, since all you're trying to do is attack me, why would you put that part in.


The logs are open for everyone.

The quotes I brought here are just the parts I felt that was relevant for the thread assuming that you are ok with the Rules Familiarity from: http://www.magic-league.com/info/rules.php
Quote:
It is the responsibility of all players to have read and learned the magic-league tournament/channel rules in advance. If you have any questions about software, please check the software guides or /join #judges4you and request help with that program. Players should familiarize themselves with the software before playing any league-rated matches. Players should also make sure their internet connection is stable and will not cause problems during game play. Failure to know the rules and/or ignorance of the rules are not valid excuses for rude behavior or match problems. Guides on the site are online for people to read, not just for show.


If you joined the tournament you are in agree with the Familiarity of the Rules, which means trying to "miss conclude" an ability or card to another person is a way of cheating.

Lets go to a scenario where I am a noob and don't know all the rules you tried to bypass:
You probably would have won the game with at least 3 illegal actions. That is cheating.


Last edited by kami_kat on Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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metal_slime



Joined: 02 Nov 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That may be. But note that I'm not the one trying to belittle someone else that I lost to. Think about that as you continue on your mission, whatever that may be.
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kami_kat



Joined: 01 Feb 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also looking in the recent logs everyone can see you are involved in recent harassments:

http://www.magic-league.com/mllogger/show.php?id=6837
http://www.magic-league.com/mllogger/show.php?id=6838

Surprised
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metal_slime



Joined: 02 Nov 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. You must be right. The logs show that I am an inconsiderate person. I know I'm not the nicest person, but you still don't see me trying to attack and belittle someone on my first day here, after I lost to that person.

I can find that those were my fault. I know what my faults are, I have a temper and am not always a nice person. Can you find your faults? Or do you still not make mistakes?
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_Godica



Joined: 26 Nov 2012
Posts: 254

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really dude? You tried to call him out for not declaring a Crypt Ghast trigger? Are you really so afraid to lose that you would resort to such childish antics to try to win?

And yes, misclicks happen. I know I personally have a mouse that sometimes doesn't work properly, I end up double-clicking something I try to single-click, or etc. When playing on computers, you have to compensate for the limitations of the medium. Trying to penalize your opponent for that is childish and unsportsmanlike.

And to make a forum topic about it? Wow, just wow. I hope this topic gets locked, or even deleted if that is possible, and I hope I never get paired with you in a tournament, because I play magic for fun, not as an excuse to be a dick to others.
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kami_kat



Joined: 01 Feb 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

_Godica wrote:
Really dude? You tried to call him out for not declaring a Crypt Ghast trigger?

No. For flooding and harassment.

_Godica wrote:
I personally have a mouse that sometimes doesn't work properly, I end up double-clicking something I try to single-click, or etc.

The other players doesnt have to understand your hardware, software or mental limitations/knowledge in accord to the Rules Familiarity.

metal_slime wrote:
Yup. You must be right. The logs show that I am an inconsiderate person. I know I'm not the nicest person, but you still don't see me trying to attack and belittle someone on my first day here, after I lost to that person.

Thanks for clarify how you are, in addition it is not my fault if you do not try to claim your rights. Even if it is my first day, regardless of winning or losing I will not be a passive peon.
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Iso1nano



Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arguing on the internet is like running in the special Olympics no matter who wins your still retarded...... That being said its one game of magic that you played online. Further more you just showed your immaturity to the entire community who I believe no one really cares. My sug would be to find a better way to handle this situation yoga deep breaths what ever works and move on with your life. We all have had rage moments on here but making a post does nothing but make you look like a fool Smile
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Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pro-tip: Making a forum post about this only makes you look worse and changes nothing.

Inb4 thread locked.
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_Godica



Joined: 26 Nov 2012
Posts: 254

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kami_kat wrote:

No. For flooding and harassment.


Quote:

<kami_kat> you paid 1 black
<metal_slime> two black
<metal_slime> crypt ghast
<kami_kat> You should declare
<kami_kat> the triggers
<kami_kat> trying to cheat again? ...


orly?

kami_kat wrote:
The other players doesnt have to understand your hardware, software or mental limitations/knowledge in accord to the Rules Familiarity.


No, you neither have to nor seem to understand much of anything. But if he says "it was a misclick" when it obviously was you should respect that. If you were playing with paper cards and a player mistakenly dropped one of their cards onto the playing area, would you demand it be buried if it were a spell that did not have a legal target? Sure there is no rule saying you have to, but to behave that way and then accuse him of unsporting conduct is blatant hypocrisy.
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Uroboros



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep... indeed this topic shows toxicity... is a clear example, than you OP!... nut i'm not entirely sure it does in the way you wanted to...







Bananas.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You make a very good point here kamikat. You absolutely should get a warning for:

121. Unsporting Conduct - Minor
"A player asks for his opponent to be penalized. "

122. Unsporting Conduct - Major
"not accepting or following the instructions of a judge"

Fortunately for you, judges do have some room for leniency, and it is important to take both sides of the story into account before issuing a penalty. You were both behaving badly, and if all players got all of the USC's they deserved, the place would be a ghost town.

You might have had a good point if you hadn't stooped to the same level. But I see several cases of you trying to rules lawyer and making hurtful accusations of cheating. Your language seems to be just as bad as his, and that is with you quote mining for specific instances.
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Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, let's be honest, if you have double exort on a 2-drop creature and only tap 3 mana, I'm gonna call you on that, unless it's a friendly game or a mini.

If you did this in a mini, you are a shameful, shameful person.

Only be a dick when money is involved.
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