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Time to get rid of the "minibeg" rule for good.


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> General Magic-League Issues

Should minibeg become allowed?
Yes
47%
 47%  [ 16 ]
no
32%
 32%  [ 11 ]
Bananas
20%
 20%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 34

Author Message
Uroboros



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:25 am    Post subject: Time to get rid of the "minibeg" rule for good. Reply with quote

Good morning, i wanted to write this post when i had all the info i need to the study im doing, but i guess it wont hurt to debate it now and add the data later...

When i returned to the channel, a couple of months ago, the activity of it was kind of like the one i left 5 years ago, obviously reduced by the less amount of players, but still active... i did not consider then that that had a lot to do with being close/during vacation time so i just enjoyed it, since the 2nd week of january the activity of the channel dropped drastically, im unemployed so i'm in the channel about 15/16 hours, not always playing or chatting, but logged in and "active" and detected that at this rate... the channel is doomed, the whole magic league will dissapear in less than a year.

Magic-league is an awesome place to play, but needs activity from judges at all times to survive, if there are less and less tourneys, less and less active judges, players will keep dropping in numbers, and that will make less tourneys and that will make less judges, and less players and go on...

I was here when minibegging was an issue, really annoying issue, but right now, its a dumb rule to enforce (i know, i know, almost nobody enforces it) but still... i'm pretty sure that at the present state of ML minibegging is not only not detrimental... but possitive and almost needed, without a new surge of the competition the decline of the site will be unstoppable and definitive.

I also know, judges somewhat have a rule for hosting events when they are able to... but im pretty sure right now... only several of them do, i hope this is discussed and the issue is addressed soon.

Btw... do the site or one of the admins have stats or any kind of register of the tourneys where i can access to elaborate statistical analisys of the decline of events/players and make a forecast based on maths?
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Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.magic-league.com/tourney_list.php
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Uroboros



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TY livermush
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pseudodespot



Joined: 08 May 2011
Posts: 496

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tournaments that did not fire off do not appear there. I do not know if you can still use the linked side for your purpose with that information in mind.
All you are probably finding out is when judges have time to run tourneys.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You seem to think that minibegging will lead to more minis. That is not the case. The purpose of minibegging is SOLELY to make judges feel guilty for their inability to run tournaments. Doing will simply make judges not want to hang out in the channel.

So if minibegging were allowed, you would get fewer tourneys, more people drifting away, and far fewer judges online to help with rules problems. Before long we would have to ban judges from playing in their own minis because there would never be judges on who were not running a tourney. This would exacerbate the REAL problem, which is that no one wants to sit and watch entries for an hour and then cancel a tourney because there is no one around to join it.
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pankill



Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: whatever. Reply with quote

It is not matter of minibegin or not.It is matter that level 1 judges should host 4 mini's a month so they have no duties.Every idiot judge there is ton of them can have the excuse that he is ok with his duties and every idiot player like me can whine because he is not judge.It is spiral but obvious mtgo will get all players of magic league that can afford the minimum when you have a better software and within 30 second you log you can find a game.I can not blame them because level of players is obviously better at average. Moreover you focus on the game and unlike here that every time you have worry about other factors like judges,cheaters,stallers you just focus on mtg.It is sad you may like reject the responsibility as long as you like but judges like you x is the sole reason the popularity of magic league is winding down aside the non-magic league factors.Every judge here thinks is perfect when the majority of them are trash is the most none rude word i can find and never do any self critic.Sad but magic-league end is coming every good player i know is not playing here anymore.Times are changing if you do not adapt you cease to exist.Sad but ml did not so that will eventually happen
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pseudodespot



Joined: 08 May 2011
Posts: 496

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if your comment is not about minibegging, then what could it possibly be? Rant for the joy of it? Honest concern? Spam?

What exactly do you expect a portal with volunteers to do better than a commercial product like mtgo? We might not achieve all of it, but aside from vague rant you offer nothing to improve the situation. Constructive critique could do so much more.

You even moan about that we have no automatic rules enforcement. Can you please go over to wizards and get us the permission?

Also we would like to see proof of certain (or all) judges do poor work. Can you give chat logs or other sources?

Finally I honestly admit that I did not run 4+ tourneys in December last year. And I hope that helps you feel better.
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BIRDYYY



Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 159

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In DCI there are To's and judges correct? Just because I'm not on point with rulings doesn't mean I can't click some things to run a mini. The judge channel almost 100% of time has a judge ready to help. Offer some of the people that want a tournament organizer position.
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Steveman



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a channel for minibegging, it's called #minibeg4you
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 900

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the occasional request is reasonable, as long as it's not constant spamming.
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quote]at this rate... the channel is doomed, the whole magic league will dissapear in less than a year. [/quote]

We're DOOOOOOOOOMED!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USHHQRodF88
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Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BIRDYYY wrote:
In DCI there are To's and judges correct? Just because I'm not on point with rulings doesn't mean I can't click some things to run a mini. The judge channel almost 100% of time has a judge ready to help. Offer some of the people that want a tournament organizer position.


I wish they would do that or let us run bots to organize ourselves into matches, kinda like Draftbot. But, according to the staff around here: "What if there's no judge around to handle match issues" which actually means "If we make it to where anyone can run a mini, who would want to bother with being a Judge?"
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Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xJudicatorx wrote:
You seem to think that minibegging will lead to more minis. That is not the case. The purpose of minibegging is SOLELY to make judges feel guilty for their inability to run tournaments. Doing will simply make judges not want to hang out in the channel.

So if minibegging were allowed, you would get fewer tourneys, more people drifting away, and far fewer judges online to help with rules problems. Before long we would have to ban judges from playing in their own minis because there would never be judges on who were not running a tourney. This would exacerbate the REAL problem, which is that no one wants to sit and watch entries for an hour and then cancel a tourney because there is no one around to join it.


So the only thing keeping our judges here and running the meager amount of minis that they do is the fact that we don't type mini requests into an IRC channel?

I don't think minibegging affects how a judge feels about running minis that day, as long as the person isn't spamming.
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Livermush



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pseudodespot wrote:
So if your comment is not about minibegging, then what could it possibly be? Rant for the joy of it? Honest concern? Spam?

What exactly do you expect a portal with volunteers to do better than a commercial product like mtgo? We might not achieve all of it, but aside from vague rant you offer nothing to improve the situation. Constructive critique could do so much more.

You even moan about that we have no automatic rules enforcement. Can you please go over to wizards and get us the permission?

Also we would like to see proof of certain (or all) judges do poor work. Can you give chat logs or other sources?

Finally I honestly admit that I did not run 4+ tourneys in December last year. And I hope that helps you feel better.


I think it's ultimately about you judges hogging the rights to run minis to yourselves. Seriously, why can't we have a bot that lets us form our own tournaments outside the site. It's just gonna give people something to do so they'll stick around longer and play in the actual tournaments.
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Steveman



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Livermush wrote:
I think it's ultimately about you judges hogging the rights to run minis to yourselves. Seriously, why can't we have a bot that lets us form our own tournaments outside the site. It's just gonna give people something to do so they'll stick around longer and play in the actual tournaments.


Judges aren't "hogging" anything. Here's reasons why we can't have a bot that lets you form tournaments outside the site.

1.) It creates confusion

2.) MWS is a stupid program that isn't self-regulating like MTGO. This alone is solid enough reason to why non-judges can't make tournaments because of how delicate players have to be when dealing with MWS.
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