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Jund Post-Rotation



 
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R0B



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:27 am    Post subject: Jund Post-Rotation Reply with quote

Here is what I think i'm going to run after rotation:
Thoughts, suggestions, etc welcome.

4x Slitherhead
4x Gravecrawler
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Dreg Mangler
3x Thragtusk
3x Carnival Hellsteed

4x Rancor
4x Dreadbore
4x Abrupt Decay

4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Blood Crypt
4x Rootbound Crag
3x Cavern of Souls
3x Swamp
4x Forest


Last edited by R0B on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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xHourglass



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have red for decay why not also run aristocrat, and geralf's messenger seems like it should be in here. Desecration demon seems iffy, I don't like the card personally. Those are the things that first stuck out to me when I took a quick look at your tentative list.
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R0B



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am still a bit unsure about Desecration Demon. Thinking i'll switch it out for Carnival Hellsteed. That thing with Rancor on it seems amazing.
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xHourglass



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hellsteed has first strike which is relevant with trample, but 6 mana seems like a bit expensive for a deck which so far looks like it's on the midrangy side of aggro. While the Steed is more resilient than aristocrat, for the same 6 mana investment I could send a rancor'd vampire plowing into them (flying too) and sac a gravecrawler before damage and rebuy the zombie after combat. And if I've drawn the nuts so far then the aristocrat can come down a full two turns sooner to finish them off. Just my two bits however.

Also, looking again, maybe Strangleroot Geist is a cut. How often is he going to come down turn two, when you want him? I could be crazy, but though he's a two drop he doesn't look like a turn two drop. Never having played the deck I can't speak for the mana, but I anticipate that holding true. You only have 8 green sources.

And if you're running hellsteed you'll definitely need more lands, running aristocrat I'd put one more and if hellsteed 2-3 more.
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd want at least 14 green sources to justfity strangleroot geist and then prob only 3.

This is how i would do it, I honestly do not feel red is justified, as straight black green feels powerful enough with better mana

3 tragic slip
3 Strangleroot geist
3 loleth troll
3 abrupt decay
4 Sign in blood
2 Ultimate Price
4 Geralf's messenger
4 lilianna of the veil
4 Dreadmangler
2 Mutilate
3 Thagtusk
4 overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetary
4 Golgari Guildgate
2 Forest
11 swamp
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xHourglass



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guildgate's seem bad, slow and don't turn on the "glacial fortress" type lands. And that's only like 17 creatures, you definitely need more. Ultimate price is sketchy to me, I'd have to test it before I'd consider it. While BG zombies seems good, Bonfire and aristocrat are just too good not to try running in my opinion. It lets you run a more midrange build that will have resilience against the initially aggressive post-rotation meta.

Just look at the RFT meta, it was textbook. Aggro came first, then midrange to beat aggro, then control to beat midrange, and now tempo and more solid aggro decks to beat control. Be ahead of the curve and build midrange, splashing for bonfire to hose the initial wave of fast decks.
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

repeat

Last edited by GreenBear on Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This will beat aggro anyway, (its all removal and card advantage) the gate is fine and very necessary, the numbers on the removal can be adjusted once the meta has been established, but that removal suite has been designed to cover all bases. Most the creatures make another creature when they die so 17 creatures are fine.

To justify running another colour you have to significantly increase the card quality to offset the worse mana, I just do not think red is doing that.

Ultimate price is far from sketchy, delver, restoration angel will not go nor will wolfir silverheart which will become more popular as it evades a lot of removal, same with messenger there are loads of good mono colored creatures around and leaving up 3 mana for a murder is just far to slow atm.
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xHourglass



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultimate price certainly seems better than I initially thought, that was a bad call on my part.

Bonfire is bonfire is bonfire. The card's a hose, the most powerful red card in standard. The most expensive card in standard, it's been steady at $50 for a few weeks on SCG. If there ever was a reason to splash red it's for this card. To not splash bonfire is to say red should never go in the deck.

17 creatures still seems low in an aggro deck, but in a more midrangy jund-style deck you're certainly right about the 2-for-1 creatures. Midrange jund is what I'm hedging my bets on for post-rotation standard, but we'll have to see. It's not actual card advantage, but it's virtual advantage which gives jund that edge in the long game and keeps the gas coming.

In a pure aggro deck I think BG is the way to go simply because you can't be stumbling on mana in the early game with an aggro deck. But if it's midrangy at all I don't see how you can justify not running red.
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