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Shocklands Will Return in Return!


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ody



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GreenBear wrote:
Better mana bases, skilled players win more, bad players win less.


"So it's Worlds, and Conley Woods needs two wins in the Extended portion. He decides, alright, I'll play Zoo, that's a solid deck that'll get me the two wins."

"He goes 1-4 and he's going into the last match, has to win to make top eight. He gets paired against a Burn player, and the Burn player mulligans to three. Conley is focused, he is ready. His opponent lays down a Mountain. He goes [throaty voice] fetchland, crack it, shockland, pay 2 life, Kird Ape. His opponent shrugs and plays another Mountain. [throaty voice] Fetchland, crack it, shockland, pay 2 life, 1/2 Tarmogoyf, attack, go. His opponent sighs and plays a Great Furnace."

"Conley untaps, goes [throaty voice] fetchland, crack it, shockland, pay 2 life, Molten Rain your Great Furnace. His opponent sits up, responds with Shrapnel Blast, putting down to 6. Opponent untaps and casts double Lightning Bolt."
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mtgsoldier



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people want the old extended back, but even if it went back, it would have less sets and cards than modern.
Yes , you heard me, think about that.














































Where is your god now?
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GunsAndDope



Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtgsoldier wrote:
Some people want the old extended back, but even if it went back, it would have less sets and cards than modern.
Yes , you heard me, think about that.














































Where is your god now?


Der, that's kinda why extended should come back.
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not always going to be true but for reasons other people have explained, better mana is a good thing as it will allow more actual games of magic being played which will result in the better player winning more often.

Funnily enough the horrible multiple shock lands play vs burn really was an example of the better player winning also. The land punished its owner for making multiple terrible decisions fine by me. Shocklands are great cards, assuming we get a full set of them and gates, two colour decks should be much more stable and it could even be possible for a three colour deck to be tier 1.
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Spyx



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 1188

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GreenBear wrote:
it could even be possible for a three colour deck to be tier 1.

You mean like naya pod is now? Wink
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I agree with the statement that better players will win more. Shock lands will add more decisions that need to be made in a game, personally I think that is what contributes to whether or not the more skilled player wins. The more decisions that both players need to make the more likely it is that the better player will make more of the right ones than the less skilled player. However I think this will more impact on the number of viable decks, now with both innistrad lands and shock lands all 3 color combinations are equally supported (this may only be true after the second set though, the first might only release shock lands for the supported guilds) therefore there is a much wider range of color options available to deck designers as opposed to nph/inn standard where enemy enemy color decks were at a disadvantage since they had less scars duals then allied colors did.
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mtgsoldier



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GunsAndDope wrote:

Der, that's kinda why extended should come back.


So you want that "standard 2.0" again?
whats wrong with you man 0_0
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GunsAndDope



Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1.) Manabases don't change a player's skill level. The deck they choose, how they build it, how the play it, the mulligans they decide to take, and how lucky they get are gonna change no matter the manabase, however, the cost per competitive deck will drastically go up (most likely, though maybe not) thus excluding some good players from competitive play and adding in the bad players with too much money.

2.) mtgsoldier: yes, I want extended to come back. It's a fun format.
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mtgsoldier



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question is: you want the old extended or the new extended (aka double standard) back?
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GunsAndDope



Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good question.
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mtgsoldier



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed
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GunsAndDope



Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer it: old extended.
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually building a mana base is a skill most deckbuilders seem incapable of. Better mana will lead to more actual games, which will favor the better player. The duals are rares and will most likely end up costing as much as a rootbound crag etc. whilst ravnica is the main draft set once its not they will go up like always. The whole idea of reprinting the duals, was to reduce there cost so more people could play modern etc.
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ShamedShadow



Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

massOass wrote:
GreenBear wrote:
The whole idea of reprinting the duals, was to reduce there cost so more people could play modern etc.


That is not so true. Wizards of the Coast is a Corporation and wants profit, the shocklands are expensive because they are used in nearly every format and demand is high. During Ravnica Standard in 2003, Watery Grave, Steam Vents and the UW one were all around $40 a piece. There was UB control, UR Dragonstorm, UR Magnivore, UW control and UWb control, Zoo was even popular. The other shocklands were all around 20 a piece.

They got a bigger jump in price when Wizards announced Modern as a format, which made them relevant again. Now that they have plateaued price and Wizards only gets paid when they are originally sold to shops and merchants, not when the shops sell them to the players. That is how capitalism works, Supply and Demand and yes demand will be high for these cards upon release but wait a month after and the price will drop, sort of like when gas prices go up during the driving season in the summer but if you wait a month after the hike the prices go back down.


Actually, he's correct. Modern is a format that Wizards wants to push really hard, and at least part of their reasoning behind printing the Shocklands was to allow players of almost any monetary situation to play Modern. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a Dark Confidant, or even a Tarmogoyf reprint at some point in the near future.

Wizards doesn't see a single penny of the secondary market. All the money they get is from a player buying a booster pack, or a a sealed box, or things of that nature. After a card has been removed from a pack, it ceases to produce any sort of profit (or loss, for that matter) for Wizards. After that, secondary stores and individuals are the only ones that deal with any sort of money regarding cards. WotC only could have reprinted them if they wanted to control the secondary market, which is exactly what they are doing so that they can push Modern.
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fierybolt



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:14 am    Post subject: fierybolt Reply with quote

shocklands will be good but i think that their impact isnt going to be amazing without fetchs. What is more is impossible that stomping ground is on prerelease because they are only 5 guilds on rtr
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