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BLUE RED CONTROL



 
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks
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struikje



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allright, so basically the usual number of lands for a "normal" deck is 24. If you are ramp or control, you play more, if you are aggro (or just don't need much lands and got cantrips), you play less.

You want to play a 10 casting cost do nothing. By the time you get to 10 mana, you can cast every spell in your deck allready, there is absolutely no reason to play omniscience.

You can't cast x-spells (like bonfire) with omniscience for anything other than x=0. So basically your wincondition is 3 bonfires. You have literrally no other way to win, and don't even run counterspells to keep yourself from dying.

Index is a horrible card, the big difference between other cards like ponder/preordain, is that its not a cantrip, meaning you don't draw a card of it. It is just carddisadvantage at its finest.

I find it veeery hard to believe you won 14 games with this. How are the matchups vs delver/pod/zombies/UGr ramp/RG ramp/monogreen/...
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GaryOak



Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

out with omiscience in with worldfire
play some burnspells
out with index in with ponder
play some counterspells
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moscowdemon
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mass0ass - apparently you can't read either because the original posted list has cards that are rotating out to begin with. maybe you should point that out before going after someone mentioning ponder haha
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xHourglass



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest problem with brewing a deck for post-rotation is the fact that we don't yet what RtR has in store for us. Basically all you can do at the moment is build block-constructed control + M13, and of which there aren't any archetypical UR builds.

This being said, that's not to say that one can't be made. What you'll have to do is wait a month or so until Ravnica's spoiled so you know all what you're getting back from the rotation losses. But one can be brewed interim for sure, and I commend you for trying to be original and build a deck. Only way to learn.

Starting by looking at block constructed control in general, we have a few builds to look at. BUG control exists, as does 4-colour. UW Miracles won a PT, and friends of mine run a UWR build with bonfire and stuff that I personally like better than Hayne's UW. We were drinking with Hayne at GP Vancouver, lol, and he lamented his lack of bonfire's. That was back when no one had quite fully understood the powerhouse that was bonfire, for they were still $25-$30 each. But I don't think the deck will be viable, we'll have to see.

What else you could go, and what I see as truly working, would be to splash black for Grixis (BUR) control. Something like this:

    4x Snapcaster Mage
    3x Augur of Bolas
    2x Olivia Voldaren

    4x Faithless Looting
    3x Bonfire of the Damned
    2x Barter in Blood

    4x Think Twice
    4x Forbidden Alchemy
    2x Dissipate

    3x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
    2x Liliana of the Veil
    2x Tamiyo, Moon Sage

    4x Sulfur Falls
    4x Dragonskull Mountain
    4x Drowned Catacomb
    4x Mountains
    4x Islands
    4x Evolving Wilds
    1x Swamp


That's post-rotation legal, obviously without any RtR cards. Start with that maybe, and tinker as RtR is spoiled. That would be my plan if I were you, but I could be crazy. It offers you real win-cons via planeswalkers while still being a control deck along the same lines as the list you posted.

As far as feedback on the build that you posted goes, struikje is very correct. 20 lands is far too few, control decks can run as many as 27-29 in very mana intensive builds. But 25-27 will probably be just fine. Win conditions are really needed, because otherwise you're just going to durdle around without actually winning the game. Play a planeswalker, ultimate him/her, and you'll almost never lose. Keep it simple. Struikje's points were all valid, so consider his advice and keep it in mind.
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Iso1nano



Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They see me trolling and hating trying to catch me writing dirty......


Ok first you asked for help omniscience is worthless in standard like whats his nuts said 10cc you can cast any spell in your deck before that and your playing 20 lands so you would have to draw more than 2/3's of your deck before hitting 20 lands most likely anyways cookies are better than muffins and goats will rule the world....


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [CST] Plains (2)
3 [ST] Island (3)
4 [SOM] Seachrome Coast
3 [M12] Glacial Fortress
4 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
4 [ISD] Isolated Chapel
2 [ST] Island (4)
1 [M11] Island (4)

// Creatures
2 [MBS] Consecrated Sphinx

// Spells
3 [AVR] Temporal Mastery
4 [AVR] Entreat the Angels
4 [AVR] Terminus
3 [TSP] Think Twice
4 [M10] Ponder
3 [AVR] Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2 [M12] Oblivion Ring
3 [MPR] Day of Judgment
3 [M12] Gideon Jura
4 [NPH] Pristine Talisman

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [M12] Negate
SB: 1 [NPH] Karn Liberated
SB: 2 [SOM] Revoke Existence
SB: 2 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 3 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 1 [NPH] Despise
SB: 1 [SOM] Memoricide
SB: 1 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [ISD] Sever the Bloodline


O.o MEow
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struikje



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, did you know you couldn't cast bonfires from omniscience? From your opening post it seems that you think that when you have omnisciensce out, you just have to draw it.

I didn't really imply you being a noob/beginner, but really when I think of it now, the deck you built is just absolutely horrible, and doesn't follow the most basic rules for deckbuilding.

If you don't accept what I said, at least give an argument to why you think omniscience is any good in that pile of yours.
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The deck you posted is exactly what a noob beginner would post.

20 lands in a control deck, ravager affinity ran 20 lands and its curve ended at 2. Not only does this give the impression you are a noob beginner, it also gives the impression you are to stupid/lazy to look at other similar control decks and see for general reference how many lands they run, or what the curve of a control deck should look like.

You are playing unplayable actively bad cards ie index which is not constructed playable, if you do not understand why this card is so much worse than ponder probe etc. then you clearly are still a noob beginner still getting to grips with the theory behind the game.

Your deck is clearly far to slow and lacking a sensible ratio of card draw to threats to answers ratio, to ever really win a game. You have no curve, you have far to many card draw spells card draw does not count on a curve as it doe s not interact with your opponents game plan.

This really looks like an attempt to walk before you can crawl.
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judas_bcn



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you say your deck is 14-25, so it may be 14-35 or worse. then you post it and it has all the lacks other people pointed. people who has at least done quite well in trials in here, which means nothing but that they at least know how to play this game. they try to give polite advice and you troll at them. and you are still stubborn enough to insist on the index thing. the least you could do is give them thanks and try some of their advice, then if you prove yourself right and your brew is better, then just come back here and tell everyone.

but i bet u anyone in here can brew a list in 5 minutes that absolutely destroys your pile. at least do yourself a favor and play 25 lands or more, even if you do not change anything else choose some 4-of and do them 3-of to increase your land count.
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Yavimaya73



Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No wait...you should make this your deck..I am almost certain it's legal...

20 x Fireball
20 x Channel
20 x Black Lotus

legal that is if you are playing casual and if you have thousands of dollars for the Lotuses...
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