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The end of delver.deck?


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks

Will delver.deck survive Avacyn Restored?
Yes with little changes
66%
 66%  [ 6 ]
Yes with a totally new shell (cards and/or colors)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
No way
33%
 33%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 9

Author Message
judas_bcn



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: The end of delver.deck? Reply with quote

In my opinion, Avacyn Restored has some cards that will totally change current standard metagame. Miracle cards such as Devastating Tide or Terminus are broken against any delver.deck. No target cards that totally screw their board position at a cheap casting cost that allows to fly over mana leaks. Looks great. Moving forward on that direction, maybe UW miracle control decks could become the new powerhouse of the format. Noxious revival on miracle cards, specially on Temporal Mastery, are really close to absurd. Just be glad the only manland we have is blinkmouth nexus (although UW miracle control, playing lots of instant and sorcery spells, with runechanter's pike and nexus could be a way to go). I don't want to imagine this combo (mastery+revival+snapcaster and so on) if we had celestial colonnade on this format.
I think aggro decks will change to adapt to new control decks. No more delver.deck, or a totally new way to build it maybe. New aggro i think will be "angels", of course, dunno if monowhite or what, possibly with descendant's path and few high powered humans (such as the souulbound double strike one, maybe); also, a new "boros human" deck could see play, with Kessig Malcontents, Hellrider, Thunderous Wrath, Refoge the Soul and maybe Battle Hymn, along with the good white humans; that will be the shell of the new RDW, as well as Archwing Dragon, Chandra's Phoenix and (who knows?) Vexing Devil (with Thunderous Wrath in the deck, devil is a little bit more valuable); GR wolf run will again be a powerhouse deck I think, because of Battle Hymn and Druids Repository, although devastating tide will really hurt it.

Probably some of the things i've said will come true, and some will not. What i think is sure is that avacyn restored will be a massive blow for the current metagame and things will change a lot. (i can see noxious revival banned xD). What do you guys think?
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mchosa



Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gl casting noxious revival on temporal mastery lol...

temp mastery is exiled when u cast it


Last edited by mchosa on Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Duodax



Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Sable Stag was also the end to Fairy.dec like the new set will be the end to Delver.dec
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EMA



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noxious revival + temporal mastery doesn't work, they are not THAT dumb.

That being said, it's quite obvious that the meta is going to change completely since we have 200+ new cards that are standard legal.
In all honesty, I expect delver will stay as a tier 1 since the deck is just too consistent and versatile, and they got new toys too.

I don't know how to evaluate miracles, they look ok, not format warping like they will be in brainstorm-legal environments.
The only thing I'm sure of, is that ramp got some very, very sweet gifts, and that the shock that exiles stuff is a beating for many decks that are popular right now. For the rest, I'm afraid we'll just have to wait.
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EMA



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duodax wrote:
Great Sable Stag was also the end to Fairy.dec like the new set will be the end to Delver.dec


yeah, every time wotc prints hate cards to try to balance the format, they just fail miserably Very Happy. Volcanic fallout + stag wasn't enough to get rid of the fastidious faeries, and when they wanted a hate card for jace+stoneforge they printed DESPISE... lol.
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Strid3r



Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think miracle cards will be only in very miracle-oriented decks or not at all.
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judas_bcn



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my mistake on the mastery thing, didn't read it properly.

anyway revival on some of the miracle cards will be ok i guess. t2 10 damage to the dome and a vexing devil to decide on looks ok for just 2 life. the red miracle burn i think will see play on a RDW burn style, and other miracle cards i think will see play in a miracle dedicated deck, as strid3r said. i go a little bit further and bet it will be UW miracle control. also think could see play with faithless lootin (or mulch or so) and revival or something similar. maybe in frites, dunno.

EMA it is obvious 200+ new cards change the format. what i'm saying is if you think it will change it THAT much to make delver disappear. any answer is valid, there's no right one, as this is a poll the answer of which we'll only know in few weeks time.

my opinion is that new cards do not add almost anything valuable to delver.deck, and that UW miracle and angels will make delver die.
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Spyx



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 1188

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tbh none of the things you mentioned really weakens delver all that much.
Cavern of Souls on the other hand...
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judas_bcn



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spyx wrote:
Tbh none of the things you mentioned really weakens delver all that much.
Cavern of Souls on the other hand...


that land will be broken for any tribal deck. not only for not being able to counter creatures but also because of the splash it allows.
UW miracle control can destroy delver, as well as flying monsters (aka angels), as white has many ways to deal with equipment and thanks to cavern of souls. and an autoloss is something no one wants to face. it is what it will be with delver and those two decks (always in my opinion, not stating anything, i can't read the future).
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Spyx



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 1188

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tribal deck? I guess if you count a deck with 8 giants as tribal then yes...
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judas_bcn



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spyx wrote:
tribal deck? I guess if you count a deck with 8 giants as tribal then yes...


correct: *any aggro deck that with a concrete bomb in it or any tribal deck
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GoneBananas
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolf run aggro ramp
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Mrrr



Joined: 06 Aug 2011
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'drop a flyer on turn one, pump it and counter/bounce the rest'.dec has been around since Arabian Nights (flying men+unstable mutation) and will be around as long as there is a 1 drop with evasion, pump, counter and bounce. Delver.dec is its sickest manifestation yet since delver pumps himself. I'm quite sure that had flying men been t2 legal rather than Delver we'd be talking about flying men.dec. Tier 2 perhaps but still a viable strategy. IMHO the format is already full of answers to Delver, reason why its doing so well then is because Delver.dec is not Delver.dec per se but rather another manifestation of a proven and historically strong concept.
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judas_bcn



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrrr wrote:
The 'drop a flyer on turn one, pump it and counter/bounce the rest'.dec has been around since Arabian Nights (flying men+unstable mutation) and will be around as long as there is a 1 drop with evasion, pump, counter and bounce. Delver.dec is its sickest manifestation yet since delver pumps himself. I'm quite sure that had flying men been t2 legal rather than Delver we'd be talking about flying men.dec. Tier 2 perhaps but still a viable strategy. IMHO the format is already full of answers to Delver, reason why its doing so well then is because Delver.dec is not Delver.dec per se but rather another manifestation of a proven and historically strong concept.


i like this post. however, i still think UW miracle control will become tyer 1, and delver is an autoloss to this kind of deck (as it is build right now, miracle pseudowrath, pseudoupheaval and the angels "zenith" is too hard for this). if it can adapt to this deck will still be THE deck in standard. otherwise...
the poll is in a draw, 3-3, come on, vote for your opinion!
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