Oath of Druids + Forbidden Orchard in upkeep

magicman85 · Joined: 22 Aug 2009 Posts: 552

It is the beginning of Player 2's upkeep.

Player 1 controls no creatures.
Player 2 controls an no creatures, an Oath of Druids, and a Forbidden Orchard.

The Oath of Druids "At the beginning of your upkeep" trigger goes on the stack.

In response, Player 2 taps his Forbidden Orchard to give Player 1 a 1/1 colorless Spirit token.

The Oath of Druids trigger resolves seeing Player 1 with one creature and Player 2 with zero creatures so Player 2 gets to flip cards from his library until he reveals a creature card.

Is this correct? A friend was telling me that you can't tap Forbidden Orchard in your upkeep for Oath. Seems like a legal play to me but just want to make sure.

Malakai97 · Level 1 Judge Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Posts: 71

This is not correct. At the time Oath of Druids triggers, you have no legal targets for said trigger. Thus the ability never makes it to the stack. It's similar in principle to the reason you can't cast Shatter when no artifacts are in play.

Malakai97 · Level 1 Judge Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Posts: 71

Note that the condition must also be true on resolution in order to get the effect.

GunsAndDope · Joined: 12 Jul 2011 Posts: 261

"The targeted player controlling more creatures than the current player is a part of the targeting requirement. A player can't be targeted by this ability unless it's true, and the ability will be countered on resolution if it's no longer true at that time."

The actual wording from gatherer, which you should always check when you have a ruling question.

Also note that as long as you use Forbidden Orchard to pop out a creature before the Beginning of the upkeep, you should be alright.

magicman85 · Joined: 22 Aug 2009 Posts: 552

605.3. Activating an activated mana ability follows the rules for activating any other activated ability (see rule 602.2), with the following exceptions:

605.3a A player may activate an activated mana ability whenever he or she has priority, whenever he or she is casting a spell or activating an ability that requires a mana payment, or whenever a rule or effect asks for a mana payment, even if it’s in the middle of casting or resolving a spell or activating or resolving an ability.

605.3b An activated mana ability doesn’t go on the stack, so it can’t be targeted, countered, or otherwise responded to. Rather, it resolves immediately after it is activated. (See rule 405.6c.)

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502. Untap Step

502.1. First, all phased-in permanents with phasing that the active player controls phase out, and all phased-out permanents that the active player controlled when they phased out phase in. This all happens simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. See rule 702.24, “Phasing.”

502.2. Second, the active player determines which permanents he or she controls will untap. Then he or she untaps them all simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. Normally, all of a player’s permanents untap, but effects can keep one or more of a player’s permanents from untapping.

502.3. No player receives priority during the untap step, so no spells can be cast or resolve and no abilities can be activated or resolve. Any ability that triggers during this step will be held until the next time a player would receive priority, which is usually during the upkeep step. (See rule 503, “Upkeep Step.”)