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UWB Heartless Ramp



 
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Lithander



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:21 pm    Post subject: UWB Heartless Ramp Reply with quote

Ok...so...for the new T2...first a recap.
http://www.magic-league.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=16224
That was the original deck.
My new add ins are 2 vault and the deck is as follows.


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// NAME: Ramp heartless

// Lands
3 [M12] Drowned Catacomb
3 [M12] Glacial Fortress
1 [M12] Island (1)
4 [M12] Plains (1)
2 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
4 [ISD] Isolated Chapel
5 [M12] Swamp (4)
2 [DKA] Vault of the Archangel

// Creatures
2 [M12] Sun Titan
2 [M12] Phantasmal Image
1 [NPH] Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 [M12] Solemn Simulacrum
4 [M12] Rune-Scarred Demon
4 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
2 [SOM] Perilous Myr
4 [M12] Stonehorn Dignitary

// Spells
4 [MBS] Sphere of the Suns
4 [ISD] Heartless Summoning
1 [SOM] Venser, the Sojourner
4 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Spellskite
SB: 1 [ISD] Fiend Hunter
SB: 2 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 [NPH] Karn Liberated
SB: 1 [M12] Jace, Memory Adept
SB: 1 [SOM] Mimic Vat
SB: 3 [SOM] Memoricide
SB: 1 [ISD] Unburial Rites
SB: 1 [M12] Oblivion Ring
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Lithander



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject: How to play... Reply with quote

Basically easy enough. The objective is to get out a bunch of cloned rune-scarred demons using heartless and metamorph/image. Ideal draw would be turn 1 land turn 2 heartless spellskite/myr to kill that annoying bird, turn 3 heartless solemn ramping you to 4 land, turn 4 deamon metamorph metamorph metamorph phantasmal image phantasmal image etc.

Of course if you don't get that draw...you can ramp into demon itself
or stall till you can using dignitary. I think key here because of all the aggro is playing 4 of.

I typically play sphere and if I have metamorph in hand I either turn 3 metamorph sphere or cast solemn. very important to get to 6 or 7 mana unless you have heartless in play...then it takes 5 mana to get out demon.

And there you have it. stall or ramp till you get a demon and you know what to do from there.

You also have the added luxury of a couple of sun titans and lili for the old flare combo with image in case you play against something like mid range either aggro or control.

Please test the deck before you make suggestions as it doesn't play like the typical heartless beatdown and any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Jeyo



Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you considered Frost Titan and Palladium Myr? Myr helps accelarate to 6 and 7 if you don't have heartless, but also comes down in multiples with copy effects on turn 3 allowing you turn 4 titan or demon chain. You would have to add a bit more blue to support it, but could work as a sideboard plan giving you more relevant threats against control and a way to lock out wrath effects. I haven't tested with the dignitaries, but they seem like a decent way to buy time vs Geist et al. Are perilous myrs worth it even with the pair of Sun Titans? I tested with them in my own build and found the effect was too little for what the deck needed to deploy. With multiple copies of heartless becoming dead in attrition matches, free shocks were mediocre compared to the rest of the plan and drawing them felt underwhelming. Are the Sun Titans better than Frost Titans? Maybe against tokens with ratchet bombs from the board? I know the new land looks powerful, but maybe just as a 1 of? Not necessary to win, so not worth drawing in multiples and hurting your mana base, but can put you ahead when it comes up. Considered a sb plan of Alchemy/Burial Rites? These are the questions that popped into my head. You may have already encountered these questions in your testing and found your build to be optimal against your meta, so don't be overly critical of the suggestions. Just sharing some ideas Smile
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Lithander



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:37 pm    Post subject: Jeyo reply Reply with quote

I did test with frost titan and found that I liked drawing into them. The problem comes with the mana base as Elesh is the game-breaker vs RDW, tokens, kessig, vamps, delver, steel and really anything that doesn't run big beefies. Maybe in the future, I may take out the sun and go with a heavier blue build. I did take out a sun titan to put in a sheoldred which was in my original build. I think sheol is more relevant now as UB control packs much removal. You're right about the perilous myr as a late game blah card. the thing I can't get away from is the stall effect vs aggro with a turn 2 myr. the thought of havengul also has entered my mind as a viable addition. As far as Sun Titan...I think it's better as a 1 of late game to tutor for. when resources get low and lots of stuff is in the gy, a mid to late game lili will do well. Also typically G2 vs many decks, ratchet, lili, and spellskite recursion is just game-breaking. g2 vs UBx or UW control, I take out the heartless and switch it to a ramp planeswalkers build with memoricide. Demon for a demon typically and hope to get my karn out for the late game win, or mill them with Jace. Vat also comes in as does unburial. After turn 3, I cast into their counterspells and hope one thing gets through. alchemy/Unburial however doesn't work for my playstyle. Although strong in a flare build, this deck doesn't do that. I just try and not give them a chance to think twice or Alchemy on my turn and that strategy seems to be working. If they allow the solemns to resolve, they become beatsticks and allow me to ramp to enough mana to get through the mana leaks.
As far as Palladium myr...I have tested it with pally in there and the result was underwhelming. I went with 4 solemn instead because if I cast an metamorph with solemn in play, and the gut shot, I get the card back. if I do it with pally in play, I don't. seems that turn 3 is a very important turn with this deck and even though the ramp is important, it's not as important to get to 6 mana as say.. a kessig build that relies on primeval.
Vault eliminates the consideration of putting in wurmcoil for me. The mana base is solid enough and as a 2 of, has not hurt.
Thank you for your input. If you've tested the deck and come up color-hosed or whatnot, let me know.
Also throwing around the idea of O-ring as opposed to perilous, but something about that darn 2 drop
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Lithander



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Havengul addition Reply with quote

I too out sheol for havengul...silly
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JestersBoots



Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see Sheoldred in the build, nor Havengul. I'm guessing you lowered your sun titan to a singleton, swapped it for Sheoldred, and then swapped that for a Havengul singleton. If that's what you mean, you were almost there. I think the right move would be to drop both perilous myr for a Sheoldred, and another phantasmal image. With three images, you can stall almost as easily as with the perilous against RDW. It will at least buy you into Solemn/dignitary and some ramp.

Sheoldred is a house if not answered, whereas Havengul tends to be a win more. You can't forget Sheoldred goes to the dome for 6, or even 8 with his jungle fever snow bunny partner. Swampwalk is not to be underestimated.

With the recent resurgance of snapcaster because of Tragic Slip, I think people are going to find that the meta moves toward a "Many and often" creature based approach, RDW will die out slowly, tokens will rise to the top, werewolves will be up there, and beast decks with less focus on the alpha strike and more focus on spilling critters. What this means is that decks like yours that can spill 6 demons in one turn are going to be king. Concepts like Unburial Rites, Sheoldred, and anything else that deals with single creatures are lessened in potency because of Tragic Slip.

All that said, I still swear by the need to get Urabask somewhere in this build. Almost to the point of shedding the dignitary/venser/elesh AND sun titan. It would certainly nail down the early game.
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JestersBoots



Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost forgot one point. If you ignore everything else I've posted, it may also be stupidly strong to replace perilous myr with Thalia. Now there's a card that isn't "meh" later game, she comes back to sun titan, rocks the early defense, fits the color scheme, and totally hoses mana leak/dissipate.
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Lithander



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Can't do Thalia Reply with quote

You forget...it's a heartless summoning deck. I also think havengul is a better choice than sheo because of the immediately usable ability. Tweaked the deck a little bit and tried it with a second Venser and a second elesh to replace the two myrs. Also took out lili for 4 alchemy. Dunno if it's good, but it looks promising so far
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Lithander



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Not really my idea. Reply with quote

It's a typical heartless build. My idea was ramping into heartless for even bigger fatties without really having to rely on any one card in the deck for the kill with demon being a key component as the search mechanic. The idea is 5th turn (or before) 5/5 flying tutor. One of my friends is screaming at me about not having counterspells or removal. Who is this aintrazi BTW? Anyways...I'm getting close to the final version, but the latest build since the last 2 trials have so many tokens includes Elesh as a 2-of main.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// NAME: Heartless Ramp

// Lands
4 [M12] Drowned Catacomb
3 [M12] Glacial Fortress
1 [M12] Island (1)
4 [M12] Plains (1)
4 [ISD] Isolated Chapel
5 [M12] Swamp (4)
2 [DKA] Vault of the Archangel
1 [M12] Island (2)

// Creatures
2 [M12] Phantasmal Image
2 [NPH] Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 [M12] Solemn Simulacrum
4 [M12] Rune-Scarred Demon
4 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
2 [M12] Stonehorn Dignitary
1 [DKA] Havengul Lich
2 [SOM] Perilous Myr
1 [M12] Sun Titan
1 [M12] Sphinx of Uthuun
3 [NPH] Spellskite
1 [NPH] Sheoldred, Whispering One

// Spells
4 [MBS] Sphere of the Suns
4 [ISD] Heartless Summoning
1 [SOM] Venser, the Sojourner

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [M12] Stonehorn Dignitary
SB: 1 [NPH] Sheoldred, Whispering One
SB: 1 [NPH] Karn Liberated
SB: 3 [NPH] Entomber Exarch
SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 [M12] Jace, Memory Adept
SB: 3 [SOM] Memoricide
SB: 2 [M12] Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 [ISD] Unburial Rites
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