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Mirrodin: Reloaded


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waigoren



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Mirrodin: Reloaded Reply with quote

This topic flows out of a discussion we were having in #draft4you about mix and match set drafts. Basically most of the sets are designed to be drafted as a whole block, and you end up creating a lot of dead commons or less playable cards when you reduce the chance of tribal or mechanic based synergies in the following packs.

Some of us thought it would be neat if we could for instance draft a proliferate strategy that focused on arcbound, but any mixture of Scars block and Darksteel packs left you with just enough infect creatures for them to be useless as a strategy, but still take up significant pack space.

So... some of you might remember how they basically pretend the second Highlander movie never happened... What if we built a custom set using cards from both mirrodin blocks, and pretended infect never happened?

This would be similar in some ways to a cube draft, but not in the sense of having a pile of rares in each pack, but in the sense of choosing the best that each set had to offer and balancing them between colors and casting cost ranges.


The first thing that comes to my mind is AFFINITY. This mechanic was busted in constructed, but I don't think it will be too unbalanced if we get the ratios just right. Metalcraft was their way of trying to do something that tasted like affinity but didn't create decks with bulging biceps and brutal turn four alpha strikes.

I realize that with Dark Ascension just around the corner, there's an actual REAL new set to play with, but I think this idea sounds like it could yield some fun drafts, and perhaps even sealed pools, and I welcome any suggestions in building it.
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waigoren



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at some numbers for pack composition, lets start with commons. We'll use SOM as a benchmark.

Out of 100 nonland commons there are about fourteen commons of each color, and they're arrayed between casting cost as follows:
1-2 cmc : 7
3-4 cmc: 5
5-7 cmc: 2

The cmc ratios for each color are slightly different, but again, we're just using this as a guideline. The remaining 30/100 nonland commons are colorless artifacts. 20 0-2 drops and 10 3-4 drops.

The mistake I made with the modern cube was failing to note these sorts of ratios.

I'm going to be really ambitious and say that I'd like to make three custom sets: Mirrodin Reloaded will be the main set, with 100 commons drawn from Mirrodin and Scars, then Darskteel Besieged, with 55 commons from MBS and Darksteel, and finally Phyrexian Dawn, also 55 commons, from NPH and Fifth Dawn.

If later it turns out that we just don't have enough good cards for that, then I'll roll them into the main set and make it bigger.
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waigoren



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ones and twos:

Seven cards in each color of either one or two casting cost, from SOM and Mirrodin.

Lets start with blue. There really isn't much to choose from. Man some of these old cards are awful. I'm already starting to see how this could easily just be a single set.

Annul, certarch, inertial bubble, disperse, lumengrid warden, plated seastrider, neurok familiar, silclaw, disarm, dream's grip, turn aside.

We have to cut the worst four of these. Seastrider and warden are basically redundant... I would cut warden, silclaw, dreams grip and disarm. Silclaw is a nod to the milling strategy, there's no other support for it, so we can let it go.

So it's: annul, certarch, inertia bubble, plated seastrider, disperse, neurok familiar, turn aside.

Black: grasp of darkness, wrench mind, consume spirit, dross hopper, terror, disciple of the vault, fume spitter.

Ok. so some of these old cards are less awful...

Green: ezuri's archers, wing puncture, tj chosen, tj defiance, pred strike, carapace forger, turn to dust.

Red: galvanic blast, goblin gaveleer, kuld rebirth, shatter, oxidda daredevil, fists of the anvil

White: revoke existence, raise the alarm, leonin elder, transfixer, glint hawk, sunspear shikari, - do we want den guard, salvage scout, seize the initiative or awe strike? I'll say salvage scout for now.

Artifacts: We get to narrow it down to a list of 20 0-2 drop artifact commons. 5 are mana myrs. 5 are spellbombs. (red and blue from mirrodin, the rest from SOM) wall of tanglecord, glinthawk idol, perilous myr, lifestaff, longbow, bonesplitter, pinions, accorder's shield, chromatic sphere, golden urn.
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Jacois



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome idea dude. This might actually make drafting fun!

Maybe next we could do Lorwyn/Onslaught or Odyssey/Innistrad.
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zebo_88



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 123
Location: Phyrexia

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like this idea too. so, in the end are you using the proliferate mechanic to pump up arcbounds or are you renouncing to it? otherwise i'd suggest thrummingbird for blue 1-2's, it could be useful also for other cards that work with +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters (see fume spitter, battlegrowth etc.)
i'd suggest also necrogen spellbomb instead of nihil, since graveyard recursion would'nt be important in this format.
Maybe you can bind each color/couple of color on a specific strategy like they did in innistrad (for example counters/proliferate, equipments, affinity/metalcraft .. ) and by now i can't think about anything else. hope to help Smile
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waigoren



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's interesting to see how rarities have been juggled around between the two blocks. Trinket mage is uncommon in SOM but common in Darksteel.

So, it's been suggested to move thrummingbird to common... or at least that's what I'm hearing.

Having a repeatable proliferate effect at common might not be horrible, since infect is not a win condition. While we're messing with that, lets move the sliths to common as well. They always got passed in draft, so maybe at common, with proliferate available, they'll find some love.

Speaking of win conditions, I'm seriously considering moving darksteel reactor to uncommon. It's one of those things that probably shouldn't be a rare when there are cards like battlesphere or mimic vat running around.
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waigoren



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

of the two black spellbombs, the one that cycles for graveyard hate seems more likely to be good. We have in commons - moriok scavenger, leonine squire, and perhaps salvage scout.

In uncommon theres skeleton shard, razor hippo, auriok salvagers, and eternal witness.

one for one blind discard just doesn't seem worth it usually.
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zebo_88



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 123
Location: Phyrexia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh well i didn't remember thrummingbird was uncommon Razz
ok ok you convinced me on nihil spellbomb.
about darksteel reactor, are there answers for it, if you want to make it uncommon? white has revoke existence, blue bouncers it, red into the core but black and green?? yes i agree it would be funny with proliferate and maybe coretapper but you need to have a wide panoramic to balance all options before getting into it, so let's just see all cards color by color and cost range by cost range, just to have a wider idea of where are we going to. Smile
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waigoren



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's easy to adjust rarities after the fact, so if thrummingbird or reactor arent working out in their new homes, it's just two keystrokes away from a solution.

The thing that's harder to adjust is the number of cards total in each set. That pretty much has to be laid out in advance.

The only green answer to reactor I can think of is Molder Slug. Black has never traditionally had answers for artifacts, other than making you discard them. Apart from Into the Core, red's typical answer has always been to shoot you in the face for playing a four drop that doesn't engage in combat.

Keep in mind that reactor would always table as a rare back in mirrodin block draft. You would occasionally get the combo with dismantle, but even then it was still too slow. (dismantle targeting reactor just doubles its counters)
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zebo_88



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 123
Location: Phyrexia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

on white so we have only sunspear shikari that interacts with equipments? (and probably skyhunter cub from 3-4 drops) i think it would be more funny to have all these guys who get more benefit from equipments, so if you draft in white you will want to draft equipments to get deeper into tech.. for example why not den guard over raise the alarm? then you can pick tokens from master's voice in 2nd pack..
i don't know whether this can help you but i want to try to take out 3 and 4 common drops, then let's discuss together:

white: Arrest, Skyhunter cub, skyhunter patrol, ghalma's warden, fulgent distraction

blue: Bonds of quicksilver, lumengrid drake, neurok spy, stoic rebuttal, steady progress

black: dross prowler, instill infection, moriok scavenger, nim lasher/nim shrieker, wail of the nim

red: ferrovore, molten rain, spikeshot goblin, blade-tribe berserkers, vulshok heartstoker

green: deconstruct, viridian joiner, tel-jilad exile ... and i can't find other valid cards, i really don't like blunt the assault and journey to discovery so maybe we can add one more 1-2 drop and one more 5-7 drop for green?
black is critical: tossing all the infect stuff leaves only few cards to choose among, i think my choice is the most synergical, and only one of the two nim may be enough.
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waigoren



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have to think about how the packs are going to look on average. The number of one and two drops has to stay at about 50% of each color, and the ratio of creatures to spells should slightly favor creatures, but not be all creatures nor all spells.

The white commons as they stand are:
1 salvage scout, glint hawk, leonin elder, transfixer
2 raise the alarm, shikari, revoke existence
3 arrest, skyguard, slith ascendant, blinding beam
4 loxodon anchorite, ghalma's warden,

We could certainly find room for den guard in there. is he better than raise the alarm in an equipment deck? I'm not sure about that. Raise creates two creature for one spell. The value of those creatures without equipment is minimal, but with a bonesplitter they each trade for a three drop.

White at common currently has only four noncreature spells. So I can't really replace one of them with another creature.

I would be more tempted to take out elder or transfixer for den guard. Elder is kind of annoying, and suture priest also makes him a little bit redundant. If we had to replace one of these with den guard, which would you choose?

My reasoning for moving anchorite into this set is that with ascendant at common, we already have too many flying white commons, so a four drop flyer is just too many. Also, because the other two are smaller sets, there isn't as much room in the commons pool for solid cards like anchorite.

Skyhunter cub is trash, sorry. He was good in mirrodin because mirrodin was full of worse cards. In a pack with glint hawks and skyguards, he is a last pick every time. We're going to have glaivemaster as the common one drop in darksteel besieged. Two out of fourteen "likes equipment" commons in pack 1, and one out of seven in pack 2 is the same ratio.
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waigoren



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW. There is NO WAY spikeshot goblin stays at common. It makes zero sense to have that kind of repeatable removal in common when cards like embersmith are uncommons. Bladewarden is arguably just as good as spikeshot gob, and he's an uncommon too. We'll have vulshok sorceror in pack 3 as our red pinger, and he's still really good in this environment.

You're right. Blunt is trash. There were a few random wins with it in the limited ptqs, but its such a corner case.

green commons are as follows:

1. turn to dust, wing puncture, ezuri's archers
2. tj defiance, tj chosen, carapace forger, predator's strike, slith predator
3. joiner, deconstruct, journey,
4. tj exile
5. molder beast
7. wurmskin forger

I want the elf count to be fairly high in the commons, because I'm tired of Ezuri being a crap rare. It should be possible to draft around him if you decide to pick him first and not be left out in the cold. The only real fat in green here is molder beast, but he does his job pretty well. Without infect, exile is surprisingly strong, especially with all the common equipment running around.

Plus the fact that many of the green uncommons are fatties makes having too many common ones redundant.

journey gets the nod because I'm not including any dual lands. If you want to draft multicolor, you do it honestly and play green as your base color. There will be a few sunburst cards to support, and the usual strategies of taking green creatures and everyone else's removal or bombsl.


Last edited by waigoren on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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waigoren



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in red:

1 galvanic blast, goblin gaveleer, kuldotha rebirth
2 slith firewalker, shatter, fists of the anvil, oxidda daredevil
3 incite war, priest of urabrask, krark clan grunt
4 blade tribe berzerkers
5 turn to slag
6 flameborn hellion

This assortment makes furnace celebration slightly better than it used to be. FC had issues with sac effects that had a colored mana cost, and made it really slow. Now we have two common sac outlets with no cost. I choose the new berzerkers over the old for flavor reasons, and because their potential upside as a 6/6 attacker is higher than a guaranteed 3/2 haste. Having gaveleer and grunt makes fists slightly less awful as a combat trick.

Grunt is much better with the new spellbombs as well, as they can still cantrip off his ability.
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waigoren



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue:

1. annul, turn aside, certarch,
2. thrummingbird, disperse, plated seastrider
3. stoic rebuttal, slith strider, neurok invisimancer
4. lumengrid drake, bonds of quicksilver
5. sky eel school, thoughtcast
6. somber hoverguard

I'm least happy about the one slot, but there is nothing to replace it with. annul is partly redundant with steel sabotage, and turn aside is almost strictly worse than apostle's blessing. Short of bringing in blue one cost commons from other sets, these will just have to do for now, but I'm open to suggestions.
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waigoren



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

black:

1. disciple of the vault, fume spitter
2. dross hopper, slith bloodletter, consume spirit, terror, grasp of darkness
3. blistergrub, wail of the nim
4. moriok scavenger, nim shrieker, instill infection
5. bleak coven vampires

consume spirit is no fireball. Such a heavy commitment to black can be rewarded at common. Shrieker and vampires is just enough artifact interaction to keep the theme, plus scavenger is just good all around in this environment, and is another card that benefits greatly from the new spellbombs. Terror and instill are splashable removal, leaving grasp and consume for the drafter whose main color is black.

With darksteel citadel as the only artifact land, and the chances of opening ravager reduced by a larger pool of uncommons and rares, disciple is still good, but hardly a first pick.
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