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Sharum + Altar



 
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Tritemio



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:40 am    Post subject: Sharum + Altar Reply with quote

i have into play Phyrexian Altar and i cast Sharuum the Hegemon , if I sacrifice sharuum for mana, can i choose sharuum itself for its ability ?
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Sharuum enters the battlefield, there is no opportunity to activate Phyrexian Altar until after Sharuum's triggered ability is already on the stack, so Sharuum will not be in the graveyard to target at the time a target is chosen.
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zebo_88



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 123
Location: Phyrexia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isn't phyrexian's altar ability a mana ability, so doesn't it use the stack??
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MassO



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zebo_88 wrote:
isn't phyrexian's altar ability a mana ability, so doesn't it use the stack??


You are not stacking the altar's ability only Sharuum's.
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zebo_88



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 123
Location: Phyrexia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry, i do not really understand, i thought every activated or triggered ability used the stack, so when i read this post i thought stuff worked like this:
1. i cast sharuum
2. sharuum touches the battelfield, and when it does, an ability that says "return target artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield" triggers
3. in response to the trigger, i sac sharuum to get one mana from altar, this ability goes above the etb trigger and resolves first (however it does cuz its a mana ability
3b. the sacrifice is a cost so the card coes to the graveyard before the mana ability resolves
4. if no player wants to respond again, the top trigger on the stack resolves, so i can reanimate an artifact, and since sharuum is in my graveyard i can reanimate it and do it billions of times!
5. where is this plan's hidden flaw????
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Farseer
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i thought stuff worked like this:
1. i cast sharuum
2. sharuum touches the battelfield, and when it does, an ability that says "return target artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield" triggers[, goes on the stack and you immediately pick a legal target.]
3. in response to the trigger, i sac sharuum to get one mana from altar, this ability goes above the etb trigger and resolves first (however it does cuz its a mana ability
3b. the sacrifice is a cost so the card coes to the graveyard before the mana ability resolves
4. if no player wants to respond again, the top trigger on the stack resolves, so i can reanimate the artifact [that I picked as a target when the ability triggered and went on the stack]!

---

Basically, you pick targets when the ability goes on the stack, not when it resolves.
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zebo_88



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 123
Location: Phyrexia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, well, i forgot about that. you have been perfectly clear Smile
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