Magic-League.com Forum Index Magic-League.com
Forums of Magic-League: Free Online tcg playing; casual or tournament play.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

would you pay 7 mana to get a 13/13 w/trample?



 
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks
Author Message
Kewpee



Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:12 pm    Post subject: would you pay 7 mana to get a 13/13 w/trample? Reply with quote

okay, so in some situations its more like nine mana for a 13/13 with trample but thats besides the point. I started working on a UGx control deck that abuses a much forgotten card, Xenograft and the new Ludevic's Test Subject. Now you might be thinking.. wait, wth is xenograft? well to answer,

Xenograft 4U R

As Xenograft enters the battlefield choose a creature type.

All creatures you control are the chosen creature type in addition to its other types.

So how do we abuse this you might say? well thats simple.. Moonmist, yes you heard me.. Moonmist

Moonmist 1G C

Transform All humans. prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn except by werewolves and wolves.

So, if you follow me by now. Playing a Draw go type deck, laying down a ludevics turn two, maybe another by turn three. Control the game via removal and counter magic, get seven mana Preferably before turn seven with the help of somes birds and rampant growth, use ponder and think twice to dig up the combo and drop it. Now of course, when Xenograft comes into play, Call humans then at any time.. end of their turn, before combat whenever cast moonmist transforming your test subjects essentially for free netting you some 13/13 tramplers that, if unanswered just END the game right there.

Here is an example list.. its just a quick sketch i do want to make it BUG, however this version is just UG.

// Lands
2 Ghost Quarter
7 Island
4 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Inkmoth Nexus

// Creatures
4 Ludevic's Test Subject/Ludevic's Abomination
4 Ambush Viper
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Acidic Slime

// Spells
4 Mana Leak
2 Rampant Growth
2 Think Twice
4 Ponder
1 Dissipate
2 Moonmist
3 Dismember
3 Xenograft
2 Beast Within

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Ghost Quarter
SB: 2 Acidic Slime
SB: 1 Beast Within
SB: 4 Naturalize
SB: 1 Negate
SB: 3 Bramblecrush
SB: 3 Flashfreeze


Gimme some feedback/ideas, i would enjoy playing this at a FNM sometime in the future
Back to top
Selkie



Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a 3 card, multi-color'd combo, I'd want a lot more than just a big dude.

Heck, for less, I can cheat out Emrakul or Progenitus- I'd prefer to cheat them out instead, since I don't think xenograph is in standard.

You also are setting yourself up to be 3 for 1'd VERY easily, as Ludivec can't protect himself.

EDIT: Xeno is indeed in standard, sorry- I still wouldn't do it.


Last edited by Selkie on Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Burton911



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You realize that you can flip the Subject by just paying 10 mana over a few turns, .... ........ right?
Back to top
Kewpee



Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, one subject at a time you can flip by paying ten mana, however.. what if you have 2-3 out? wouldnt you much rather pay 7 to flip all of them? plus, to protect test subject you can use spell skite.. this is just a fun FNM idea, nothing more nothing less.. some actual feedback and ideas would be much appreciated, not id rather cheat in emrakul (not in standard) or progen (also not in standard) or statements of the obvious like i could just spend 10 mana to flip one, which the deck can also do if it needs to...
Back to top
sc4rs



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kewpee wrote:
yes, one subject at a time you can flip by paying ten mana, however.. what if you have 2-3 out? wouldnt you much rather pay 7 to flip all of them? plus, to protect test subject you can use spell skite.. this is just a fun FNM idea, nothing more nothing less.. some actual feedback and ideas would be much appreciated, not id rather cheat in emrakul (not in standard) or progen (also not in standard) or statements of the obvious like i could just spend 10 mana to flip one, which the deck can also do if it needs to...


I think the feedback/idea is "this is bad, and you should choose a different deck." I know you don't want to hear it, but these are the facts:

-Your combo is 3 cards minimum, and really needs 4 cards (a second Test Subject) to be better than paying the 10 mana for the Test Subject straight up.

-All of the cards involved in the combo provide no utility outside of the combo. Xenograft and Moonmist on their own are useless (unless you really like paying 1G for a worse Fog for some reason) and Test Subject is just going to stay a 0/3 defender in most cases.

-Even if you could somehow get your combo out consistently, it doesn't win right away. It's vulnerable to Day of Judgement, spot removal, O-Ring on your Xenograft, countermagic, etc. etc. In addition, your plan is to play the Test Subjects really early - almost every deck has removal to deal with a 3 toughness creature, and if you're doing nothing else, they're going to use their incinerate/doom blade/go for the throat/oblivion ring/dispatch/dismember/whatever to deal with it.

-It takes tons of mana to get to, meaning half the time you're going to die far before you get to the 7 mana to do it all in one turn. Meanwhile, you're doing nothing in the meantime. If you take two turns, you leave yourself even more vulnerable to removal.

Completely sincerely, if you're considering investing in Spellskites just to make this random FNM combo deck a little more resilient to removal, you would do much better to spend your money building a straight Blue/something control deck that plays normal win conditions or a Green/something Ramp/Birthing Pod deck that plays the green creatures you've got in here.
Back to top
Kaesh



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 376

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: would you pay 7 mana to get a 13/13 w/trample? Reply with quote

Regardless of the 3 card combo aspect and the fact it's not really 7 mana, the answer is simply no. 7 mana for a 13/13 trample is not standard-viable.
Back to top
Mitchmachine



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its fine to run at an fnm.
The deck x effect allways wins random games.
gl testing
Back to top
Burton911



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could give you actual feedback, BUT i dont think that you will have fun playing this deck.

sc4rs pretty much sumed it up already.
To address one point.
You dont have any kind of libary manipulation.
Think Twice is a long term card advantage generator, and thats not what you trying to do.
And ponder well it certainly helps, tough the problem with ponder is that it does not accomplish anything.
Even if you find a "Combopiece" it wont help you till turn 35632443, and if you find no "Combopiece" you probably want to shuffle anyway. Ponder only helps you if you looking for cards that have an imediate impact on the board, or bring you closer to winning the game due assaembling a GAMEWINNING Combo.

tl;dr; the deck lacks consistency, and even if it hat consistency it wouldnt be that good either.

If you want to play with the subject you could try to implement it in an Ux Controlshell, but you still would face the problem that the subject does nothing more than drawing the opponents removel after you spend your mana on it.
Back to top
sc4rs



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: would you pay 7 mana to get a 13/13 w/trample? Reply with quote

Kaesh wrote:
Regardless of the 3 card combo aspect and the fact it's not really 7 mana, the answer is simply no. 7 mana for a 13/13 trample is not standard-viable.


Not the place for theoretical card discussion, really, but if it was an artifact it probably would be. Tutorable with Treasure Mage and being immune to Go for the Throat would probably put it over the top.
Back to top
GoneBananas
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not the place for theoretical card discussion, really, but if it was an artifact it probably would be. Tutorable with Treasure Mage and being immune to Go for the Throat would probably put it over the top.

Did you read the article title? lol
Back to top
Kewpee



Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for some actual feedback, it as i said was not ever meant to be more or less than a simple FNM deck to play with, idk where you guys play fnm but at my shop its always semi-casual, and to counter your "you wont have fun playing this deck" argument, i can tell that i have been having a blast flipping over 2-3 subjects and watching my opponent just scoop. However, to clarify some things, im not a "noob" player without cards, i have all the cards needed to put together this deck and am not "investing" any money into it... And yes, if i never played with the deck, and didn't think of this idea myself, and read this article, id probably be on the same boat as you guys.. why try to combo when you can just do it? well, the answer is simple.. its fun
Back to top
derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

7 mana for a 13/13 trample is fine. The problem is that you use 3 cards for it. This makes the cost way too high.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All content on this page may not be reproduced without consent of Magic-League Directors.
Magic the Gathering is TM and copyright Wizards of the Coast, Inc, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved.


About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy