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Logs for T2 No Max MoOdYo v OwnedU333



 
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MoOdYo



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:50 pm    Post subject: Logs for T2 No Max MoOdYo v OwnedU333 Reply with quote

<OwnedU> Thinking
OwnedU taps Drowned Catacomb
OwnedU taps Seachrome Coast
OwnedU taps Darkslick Shores
OwnedU taps Glacial Fortress
OwnedU taps Glacial Fortress
OwnedU plays Unburial Rites from Hand
<MoOdY> Ok
<MoOdY> Wait!
<MoOdY> Wait!
<MoOdY> Wait!
MoOdY plays Mana Leak from Hand
MoOdY taps Swamp
MoOdY taps Island
<OwnedU> you said ok
OwnedU puts Sun Titan into play from Graveyard
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kane2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well.. he is right.. you said ok
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

would be better with time stamps - if he just clicked OK on accident and then clicked Wait! right away it's one thing, but to say OK and wait 20 seconds, then say Wait! is quite different.

As is, I'd say OwnedU is in the right here. You said OK, no longer his problem.
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like OwnedU owned u bro.
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Terri



Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK doesnt mean that the spell resolves. this would be considered misunderstanding
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darkwizard42
Level 2 Judge


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While more information is required to understand the situation, Terri is correct. A misunderstanding like this would be resolved by rewinding to the point of miscommunication.

When in doubt about what is going on in a game, always communicate with your opponent and if a disagreement arises, come to #judges4you.
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it could be argued that he was saying okay chose your target, since he didnt state a target for rites yet. rites is a targeted spell so you have to name a target before it ever even enters the stack.
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Acai



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even without timestamps, it's safe to say Moody didn't intend to make the spell resolve. There is no movement from any player between the "Ok" and the first "Wait". When playing a recursion spell it takes like a couple seconds to move the designated target from graveyard to battlefield. From experience, if someone plays a recursion, they either know what they want before playing it or decide after they play the spell. If it's the latter, I'm sure we'd see "Thinking" from the player with the recursion spell.

Now, this leads me to believe that the first "Wait" came right after the "Ok." That means it's a simply misclick which would be idiotic to punish. Mana Leak should be allowed to target the Unburial Rites which is still on the stack.

This isn't even ruleslawyering. Knowing misclicks happen, 0wnedU is being an opportunistic cheater in guise of a player following the rules.
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kane2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Qi wrote:
Even without timestamps, it's safe to say Moody didn't intend to make the spell resolve. There is no movement from any player between the "Ok" and the first "Wait". When playing a recursion spell it takes like a couple seconds to move the designated target from graveyard to battlefield. From experience, if someone plays a recursion, they either know what they want before playing it or decide after they play the spell. If it's the latter, I'm sure we'd see "Thinking" from the player with the recursion spell.

Now, this leads me to believe that the first "Wait" came right after the "Ok." That means it's a simply misclick which would be idiotic to punish. Mana Leak should be allowed to target the Unburial Rites which is still on the stack.

This isn't even ruleslawyering. Knowing misclicks happen, 0wnedU is being an opportunistic cheater in guise of a player following the rules.


Actually.. ruleslawyering would be pointing out that the buttons arent right next to each other.. they go: Ok, Ok?, Wait!, etc..
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Acai



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kane2 wrote:
Qi wrote:
Even without timestamps, it's safe to say Moody didn't intend to make the spell resolve. There is no movement from any player between the "Ok" and the first "Wait". When playing a recursion spell it takes like a couple seconds to move the designated target from graveyard to battlefield. From experience, if someone plays a recursion, they either know what they want before playing it or decide after they play the spell. If it's the latter, I'm sure we'd see "Thinking" from the player with the recursion spell.

Now, this leads me to believe that the first "Wait" came right after the "Ok." That means it's a simply misclick which would be idiotic to punish. Mana Leak should be allowed to target the Unburial Rites which is still on the stack.

This isn't even ruleslawyering. Knowing misclicks happen, 0wnedU is being an opportunistic cheater in guise of a player following the rules.


Actually.. ruleslawyering would be pointing out that the buttons arent right next to each other.. they go: Ok, Ok?, Wait!, etc..


You do know you can change the order of the default buttons as well as add new ones? That wouldn't apply because you would never know the order.
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Burton911



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm i dont see the point of this whole thread :/

As long as he does not anounce a legal target moody wont get priority anyway. If his way to show his target is by putting the card in question into play, then moody still can choose to react in a proper way.
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Weedmonkey



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 324

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Issues like this should be brought to the attention of a judge in #judges4you.

There are multiple issues to posting logs on threads. Firstly, not all players are present, so it is impossible to get all sides of the story. Second, as xJudicatorx pointed out, the lack of timestamps on logs means that not all information about the game is present, and thus the meaning of different lines can change. Third, whilst I am all in favour of players discussing rulings to further their own knowledge, I disagree with players attacking other people and accusing them of cheating when they are not in any position to defend themselves whatsoever. The correct thing to do is approach a judge, and if necessary ask judges for a more in-depth explanation once your match is completed.

Whilst I cannot provide a definitive answer to who is in the right here without an investigation, I would be hard-pressed to be convinced that saying OK here means anything other than what it is commonly accepted to be understood as in this context, which is "I will allow your spell to resolve". Therefore, I cannot see any miscommunication at all. As for the misclick argument, generally judges don't accept this as a legitimate excuse, as it can easily be construed as players taking an action, realising it's the wrong one, then wanting to take it back.
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