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Sundial of the Infinite



 
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Omnom



Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:02 am    Post subject: Sundial of the Infinite Reply with quote

If I have Sundial of the Infinite, Venser the Sojourner and Oblivion Ring in play, can I use Venser's ability to exile the O-ring; then before the Ring's ability resolves, use Sundial of the Infinite to end the turn and thus exile two permanents: The original one and a new permanent when O-Ring comes back into play because of Venser's ability.
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Raybelfast



Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think due too the wording if you trigger sundial as the o-ring return trigger is on the stack the permanent stays exiled as the ability is removed but the o-ring wont return untill the end of your opponents end step and trigger its CIP as that step has been skipped as i think sundial goes straight too cleanup step.
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Strid3r



Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:17 am    Post subject: Re: Sundial of the Infinite Reply with quote

Omnom wrote:
If I have Sundial of the Infinite, Venser the Sojourner and Oblivion Ring in play, can I use Venser's ability to exile the O-ring; then before the Ring's ability resolves, use Sundial of the Infinite to end the turn and thus exile two permanents: The original one and a new permanent when O-Ring comes back into play because of Venser's ability.


strid3r wrote:
No you can't, because oring's leaves the battlefield ability resolves before venser's delayed triggered ability triggers.


Now that i think about it a little more i think you actually can.

You end the turn in response to oring's leave the battlefield triggered ability. That ability is exiled from stack. And at the beginning of opponents end step venser's dealayed triggered ability triggers and you may exile another permanent with oring. sry Smile


Last edited by Strid3r on Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:41 am; edited 3 times in total
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moscowdemon
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets look at the cards at hand.

Sundial of the Infinite {2} |Artifact| 1, T: End the turn. Activate this ability only during your turn.

Venser, the Sojourner {3WU} |Planeswalker -- Venser| 3 loyalty. +2: Exile target permanent you own. Return it to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of the next end step. / -1: Creatures are unblockable this turn. / -8: You get an emblem with "Whenever you cast a spell, exile target permanent."

Oblivion Ring {2W} |Enchantment| When Oblivion Ring enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent. / When Oblivion Ring leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control.

To answer you in short, yes, you do get to permanently exile two permanents, but they are the original Oblivion Ring permanent and the other is the Oblivion Ring itself (at least until the next end step happens).

The reasoning behind this: When Venser exiles the permanent, that permanent doesn't come back until THE BEGINNING OF THE NEXT END STEP. When you end the turn with sundial, this is what happens: Exile all spells and abilities on the stack. The player whose turn it is discards down to his or her maximum hand size. Damage wears off, and “this turn” and “until end of turn” effects end.

After reading that all, you see that you never actually go to your end step and thus the Oblivion Ring will never return the object it originally exiled and the Oblivion Ring itself will just return during the next end step that happens (likely your opponents).

Editted for - props to strid3r for using awesome terms! Razz
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sypor wrote:
If this combination of abilities - including mimic vault and glimmerpoint stag - are so great...why is it not being played in tourneys? I've looked all around and don't see it being used, I've seen viable deck options...is it just too fragile or is it a surprise coming later on? (a.k.a. disregarded tech?) Opinions?


This forum is for rules questions and rules discussions. This question belongs elsewhere, perhaps in the "Standard (T2) Decks" forum.
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