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Metamorph and Swords


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Magic Rulings
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kookie_Mnstr wrote:
correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure you can respond to the ETB ability. because i've had a magic league judge tell me that a player can lightning bolt in response to tidehollow sculler's ETB ability, killing the creature, but they are still showing their hands.

Tidehollow Sculler has an ETB triggered ability, Iona doesn't.
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Crevette



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kookie_Mnstr wrote:
correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure you can respond to the ETB ability. because i've had a magic league judge tell me that a player can lightning bolt in response to tidehollow sculler's ETB ability, killing the creature, but they are still showing their hands.


You're correct, and the magic league judge also.

But, Iona and metamorph's abilities are not ETB abilities.

Once the color is chosen, it's too late for opponents to respond by casting spells of that color. Iona is not yet in the battlefield at the time the color is chosen, so, for example, there's no way for an opponent to destroy it by casting Doom Blade if the chosen color is black

Sure, if a metamorph "tidehollow sculler" ETB, it will trigger "target opponent reveals his or her hand and you choose a nonland card from it. Exile that card"
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can respond to scullers ability, the sculler will die then they get to look at a card and remove it from your hand and you will never be able to get that card back.
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numotflame96



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a difference of wording.

Iona Reads:

"As Iona, Shield of Emeria enters the battlefield...."

Sculler Reads:

"When Tidehollow Sculler enters the battlefield..."

the difference is that the sculler's ability is a triggered ability (you can see that from the word "When") which mean when it enters the battlefield it goes on the stack and people have a chance to respond to it. Iona just reads "As it enters the battlefield" so its just something that happens when it goes enters play so there is no chance to respond to it once the spell resolves. Its the same reason the torpor orb doesn't interact with iona or things of like abilities.
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Terri



Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to clarify: if any ability or spell says "choose" or "of your choice". this is part of the effect so no one can do anything in response to that. the same with "as comes into play". since it doesent say "target" it also doesent target anything.
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JJBeast



Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So does Torpor Orb's "Creatures entering the battlefield do not cause abilities to trigger" work on Iona, or is that not a triggered ability and more State based like putting 2 Thrun's or Jace's on the board?

Also, are you saying that Phantasmal Image could clone a creature with Prot Blue?
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JJBeast wrote:
So does Torpor Orb's "Creatures entering the battlefield do not cause abilities to trigger" work on Iona, or is that not a triggered ability and more State based like putting 2 Thrun's or Jace's on the board?

Also, are you saying that Phantasmal Image could clone a creature with Prot Blue?

Things that say "As this enters the battlefield" occur before(or really during) the card entering the battlefield. They are replacement effects. Torpor Orb doesn't prevent those. Things that say "When this enters the battlefield" are triggered abilities and are prevented by Torpor Orb. Just to be clear though, they are not State based effects either. They are replacement effects, meaning "if this would enter the battlefield, instead you choose an option and it enters the battlefield".

Phantasmal Image certainly could copy a creature with protection from Blue. It's ability does not target and Pro Blue does not prevent it from being chosen to be copied.
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feamar



Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok ok,

so, last question. In the old days (revised) when I played a clone,
and there were for instance a serra angel and a mahamoti djinn on the table, I would say which of those I wanted to clone.

Lets say I wanted to clone the djinn.

Then, if my opponent would STP the djinn, I would have NO creature, or at least I think that was the case. Come these rulings, would I then be able to get the serra angel, or would the clone fizzle all together like it previously did?

Thx for all this clarity btw!
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happened around Revised is almost impossible to reconstruct, especially since the rules kept changing with every new expansion.

Nowadays, you don't have to say what you copy, until you actually copy it. Your opponent won't know which one you'll copy. He can still destroy Djinn if he wants to, but you'll just choose the Angel to copy.
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