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U/W Fish For T2



 
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scopeless



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: U/W Fish For T2 Reply with quote

(Recently Updated 9/23/11 12:30PM Central Time)

UW Go Fish

// Lands
4 [M12] Glacial Fortress
6 [M12] Island (3)
3 [ISD] Moorland Haunt
6 [M12] Plains (2)
4 [SOM] Seachrome Coast

// Creatures
1 [MBS] Consecrated Sphinx
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets
3 [ISD] Mindshrieker
2 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
1 [M12] Sun Titan
4 [ISD] Invisible Stalker

// Spells
4 [ISD] Curiosity
3 [M12] Day of Judgment
4 [M12] Ponder
4 [M12] Mana Leak
3 [M12] Oblivion Ring
4 [ISD] Think Twice
1 [SOM] Sword of Feast and Famine

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ISD] Ghost Quarter
SB: 2 [M12] Grand Abolisher
SB: 3 [NPH] Mental Misstep
SB: 2 [M12] Timely Reinforcements
SB: 2 [NPH] Hex Parasite
SB: 1 [M12] Day of Judgment
SB: 2 [ISD] Purify the Grave
SB: 1 [M12] Oblivion Ring

I'm a former vintage player who took a break for a few years and only started playing again a few months ago. I used to love playing U/R Fish because it was the only "cheap," but effective vintage deck at the time. Creatures in vintage were and still are pretty terrible overall, but this deck performed well. The reason was that it was built to beat decks with more explosive play (combo, stax, etc.) than Fish. The goal was to slow your opponent's game plan long enough to just win, generating quick card advantage along the way. Most players nowadays would probably just call it aggro/control because there are almost no Merfolk in the deck anymore (but the name stuck in Vintage for a while to mean something more along the lines of "fishing" for answers in your deck).

I've been able to beat RDW and Puresteel without sideboarding partially because blue was finally given some weenies that are just as fast or faster than the speedier decks in the meta (Delver and Mindshrieker).

The suggestions I'm looking for involve maybe adding one more efficient weenie (thought about Mentor of the Meek, but he costs 3) and cutting Venser, or going further down the Venser route and adding another creature that works well with him. I'm leaning toward cutting him in favor of another weenie to put curiosty on by turn 2.

Your starting hand will determine how you should play the deck that game because it works as both aggro and control. Snapcaster + Day of Judgment is probably the sexiest use of the new ISD card.

The goal with the suggestions: Make a deck that's faster than control that can still control itself, and make a deck that has a better late game than RDW (or other fast decks) and can keep up with the faster decks' damage.

P.S.: I'd also be open to moving to U/B, U/R, or U/G, but I went U/W because Day of Judgment is the cheapest board clearer to combo with Snapcaster. (EDIT: I think I'm sticking to U/W, but that doesn't mean other U/x build aren't viable.)

P.S.S.: First post I think? EDIT: Nah, just first in a loooooooong time.

-------------------------------------------------------

16-3 match (32-11 games) record in testing casual games...

vs. RDW 3-2
vs. UW Control 2-0
vs. UW Venser Control 1-0
vs. Puresteel 1-0
vs. UB Control 1-0
vs. Bant Pod 1-0
vs. Reanimator 3-1
vs. ??? Pod 1-0
vs. Gavony Township Weenie-cide (?) 1-0
vs. White Weenie 1-0
vs. Random Jank Deck 1-0

2-1 match (4-3 games, 1 tourney win) record in testing tournament games...

vs. U/R Aggro/Control 1-0
vs. Werewolves 1-0
vs. Reanimator 0-1


Last edited by scopeless on Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:36 pm; edited 8 times in total
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kane2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take out the Mindshrieker and put in Invisible Stalkers
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scopeless



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kane2 wrote:
Take out the Mindshrieker and put in Invisible Stalkers


It's funny you said that because I just tested the more aggro route by doing this...

-1 Oblivion Ring +1 in SB
-1 Ghost Quarter SB
-2 Venser, the Soujourner
-1 Mindshrieker
+4 Invisible Stalker

...and kept the Mindshreikers in. I went 2-0 in matches after that change vs. U/W Control and U/B Control (using Snapcaster with Doom Blades). 2-1 both games. The games I lost were topdeck wars going all the way down to opponent 10 cards in deck and opponent 5 cards in deck for U/W and U/B, respectively. I actually won g3 vs. U/B Control on turn 7 on the back of a Delver and a Mindshrieker. I was able to counter an earlier Liliana, Death Cloud, and a Snapcaster then they just ran out of time to cast Grave Titan or some other bomb.

EDIT: Do I need another bomby-type card now that I cut two Venser? Cancellor of the Annex? Hero of Bladehold?
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Halldir



Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 221

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what about Geist of Saint traft??
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scopeless



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halldir wrote:
what about Geist of Saint traft??


I thought about Geist as far as getting more damage faster, but Mindshrieker is cheaper and has more chance to stay alive when attacking...which is huge for Curiosity.

I did make a few more minor changes. Here's my record since I made some more changes...

9-1 (all records in matches, not games)

vs. RDW 2-1
vs. UW Control 1-0
vs. UW Venser Control 1-0
vs. Puresteel 1-0
vs. UB Control 1-0
vs. Bant Pod 1-0
vs. Reanimator 1-0
vs. ??? Pod 1-0

Usually I control them just enough to overrun them.

RDW was 0-2 in games and my life totals were 7-0 and 5-0. My problem was not drawing any DoJ those 2 games to slow them down. I added another DoJ in SB to rectify that. Something I've been thinking about cutting all together...dissipate. I find myself siding it out a lot, in fact the RDW player that beat me echoed that suggestion.

Is this deck begging for at least one swords?
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Top8eR



Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since red seems to be the worst problem, and you seem to want a sword as is, why not add a Sword of War and Peace?

edit: 1 should be enough with the amount of drawing you have. 2 would be optimal, probably 1 of each good sword, but that all depends if you want to cut 1 or 2 slots.
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scopeless



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top8eR wrote:
Since red seems to be the worst problem, and you seem to want a sword as is, why not add a Sword of War and Peace?

edit: 1 should be enough with the amount of drawing you have. 2 would be optimal, probably 1 of each good sword, but that all depends if you want to cut 1 or 2 slots.


I changed some more cards around to accommodate a swords. I went with FaF though. With the amount of card draw I have, FaF untap is devastating. I also put 4x Ponder in to stack the deck in a Delver's favor. I cut the Frost Breath even tho it won me a few games. I realized that usually I had board control without the Breath if I was winning. And, if I'm not winning, I'd rather dig for answers.

I faced 4 more decks with the changes and recorded my second loss. 2-1 to reanimator. I got land screwed g3 (only happened to me twice so far in testing and I won one of those games because my curve is so low.)

With Swords and Ponder I faced...

vs. Reanimator 1-1
vs. Gavony Township Weenie-cide (?) 1-0
vs. U/W Control 1-0
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scopeless



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your help (including the people I tested against who didn't post)! The deck is very solid. I did lose again to RDW but then I faced it again right after and won. I have been drawing obscene amounts of cards and am able to basically goldfish half my deck looking for answers and beats. Now with Ponder, I can stack my deck to benefit Delvers and Shriekers, as well as a cheap Snapcaster target. Here's an updated match results since last time...

vs. RDW 1-1
vs. Venser Control 1-0
vs. Reanimator 1-0
vs. White Weenie 1-0
vs. Random Jank Deck 1-0

Again, thanks for the tips! The deck is working terrifically!
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scopeless



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying it in a No-Max tourney for the first time...

Match One Vs. U/R Aggro/Control (Hawkman)
Won 2-1
-------------------------------------------
Our decks played very similar except he went red for that removal, and no Curosity and Snapcasters (I think)

G1: I played an early curious creature and took considerable damage from his Ferrovore. I ended up doing 3 damage and drawing 3 cards of my attacker before clearing the board with a DoJ. He never recovered and drew all lands. I finished with a Consecrated Sphinx after DoJ.

G2: I stalled on two lands for some time. I started to recover, but he finished me with a Mindshrieker and 4 mills from it...exactly enough to kill me. He also was successfully answering my threats. I also had an early curious creature but drew one card and he never transformed and was then rendered blockable after countering my attempt to clear blockers with an O. Ring. It was easy to see how I lost that one.

G3: I again played an early creature but he killed it (waited on my curious for that reason). He went Ferrovore. I went Think Twice EOT and then O. Ring on his 'vore, but he countered. He cast Ichorclaw Myr and Sphere of Suns. I kept drawing threats and O. Rings, though. I then cast another Sphinx and drew 6 cards off of him and got down to one life, but he then drew 2 lands in a row and a non-threat on his scoop turn, so I won with just enough life.

-

Match Two Vs. Werewolves (badam)
Won 2-0
------------------------------------------
It was exciting to see someone trying to break Werewolves!

G1: I played an early curious creature and just like g1 of last round, I took some damage, but drew 3 cards, did a little damage of my own, and cleared the board with DoJ. I followed that next turn with a Consecrated Sphinx. His werewolves were then no longer able to keep up. (Did I mention the whole game he had 3 Silver In-laid Daggers in play and one successful attack would have killed me?)

G2: I played another early Delver, but he played a blocker and I did not get a transform. So, I played Invisible Stalker. He hit me for one and transformed by not playing spells. I followed with Curiosity on Stalker and a Ponder to flip his creatures back. I stacked the deck so I could transform next turn. He attacked for two. He played more werewolves. I transformed and drew the DoJ I stacked on the deck. I cast Ponder and drew into a Sun Titan and a Sphinx. I passed and he again played a creature, swung for a little damage and passed to transform. Then I went draw -> swing -> curious draw -> Delver -> Go. He played a creature -> Attacked -> I Chump Block -> Go. I cast DoJ -> Go. He played a werewolf -> Go and I EOT Think Twice. I played Timely Reinforcements and Shrieker -> Go. He went land -> Go -> Transform. I went Sun Titan into dead Mindshrieker -> Go. He O. Ringed my Titan then played Garruk the Relentless and killed my creature. I then O. Ring Garruk -> Creature -> Go. He went Champion of the Parish -> Go. I went Sphinx - > Creature -> Go. He drew something he didn't like and scooped.

-

I was gearing-up for the finals when that person dropped. So, I won my first No-Max T2 with the deck! It performed very well. I felt like all the games except the land screw vs. U/R Aggro-Control I had drawn soooooo many cards that I could play my hand seven different ways. I had no trouble finding my win conditions. I also forgot to mention that two of my games had Moorland Haunt allow me to chump block and keep my curious creatures attacking every turn. Here's a break down...

-------------------------------------------

Total Games Played: 5
Total Games with a Turn Two Curiosity Target: 3
Total Cards Drawn with Curiosity: 12 (Over 2 per game! Average would be almost 3 per game, but the land screw game I only drew one and brought my average down.)
Total "Wins" with Sun Titan: 0 (Although he took the heat off of a Sphinx in one game.)
Total "Wins" with Consecrated Sphinx: 4
Total "Wins" with Sword of Feast and Famine: 0 (I had it in the land screw game with an Invisible Stalker and lost.)

-

Tourney #2 8 Max

Match One vs. Reanimator (jfc)
Lost 0-2

----------------------------------------------

I won't go into details of each move, but both games were very similar. I drew a control-type hand (no creatures) both games. I drew one creature in the first three turns both games, which he promptly removed. I usually stalled him a little by countering Unburial Rites or Forbidden Alchemy (which if you don't know by now, is quite broken. Counter it.) But, he would instead change his gameplan to hard-casting Titans instead of using Rites. He would then counter my O. Rings, cast a Liliana and start winning. I survived 15 turns longer g2 with my SB Purify the Graves and Hex Parasites.

-

This loss is a good example of what I was talking about with the deck playing differently depending on the hand. Since he was playing a control deck, the control hand I drew would never be as good as a true control deck's hand. Vs. control/Reanimator, you want an aggro hand with one counter or removal and a bunch of threats and draw. Vs. an aggro deck you want a hand with a threat and a mix of draw/removal, especially a DoJ. I would almost mull in a g2 or g3 with a mirror hand. Interestingly, I haven't yet had a bad hand vs. Pod decks. It seems like aggro or control works in that match-up.

--------------------------------------------
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scopeless



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to give a kudos to Moorland Haunt. This card does not seem like much, but I can't tell you how many times I have surprise blocked and killed important creatures with it, or killed a freshly played planeswalker after they use the MINUS move and I EOT make a token and swing for one. It also helped me survive a total of 15ish extra turns in about 25-30 games. That's one extra topdeck and untap every two games! Plus, it's kinda funny when people do misplay attack with Grim Lavamancer and it dies to a 1/1 surprise.
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scopeless



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@bscott: This is actually quite an old deck. I made it before DKA came out. There's better builds out there for sure.
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