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[About Innistrad FAQ] Weird or Not?



 
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Tritemio



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:08 am    Post subject: [About Innistrad FAQ] Weird or Not? Reply with quote

Reding Innistrad FAQ, i found some weirds Things, Or I fail to understand

1. Dearly Departed
Quote:
However, you'll ignore the continuous effects of static abilities that come from other sources. For example, if you control Xenograft with Human as the chosen creature type, a Vampire creature would not enter the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter.


why not in this case?

2. Tree of Redemption
Quote:
Any toughness-modifying effects, counters, Auras, or Equipment will apply after its toughness is set to your former life total. For example, say Tree of Redemption is enchanted with Spectral Flight (which makes it 2/15) and your life total is 7. After the exchange, Tree of Redemption would be a 2/9 creature (its toughness became 7, which was then modified by Spectral Flight) and your life total would be 15.


What?? I can understand (2/7, 13), (2/7, 15) but this case....
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dearly Departed:
Abilities that read "As this enters" or "Enters with" are replacement effects - they effect things which happen in real time. A creature card which has the sub type Human will enter the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it instead of entering the battlefield normally. A creature card which doesn't have the sub-type Human will not be a Human, even with Xenograft in play, until it is already on the battlefield.

Supposing the ability read "Whenever a Human enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on it"(the words When or Whenever signify Triggered abilities rather than replacement effects), then it would work the other way.


Tree of Redemption:
When you make the exchange, your life total becomes whatever ToR's toughness was prior to the ability being used. In this example, it was a 2/15 so your life becomes 15 - very cut and dried. The toughness setting uses the system of Layering to determine ToR's final toughness.(613.3 in the comp rules)

613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied. (Here it is set to your former life total of 7)
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.(Here it gains +2/+2 from the aura)

So you see you have made a net gain by using the ability while his toughness is boosted(and would make a net loss if his toughness were reduced).
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Kabelis



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random note: I think a good way to imagine replacement effects is to view them a "limbo" between the stack and the battlefield.
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kabelis wrote:
Random note: I think a good way to imagine replacement effects is to view them a "limbo" between the stack and the battlefield.


This is not a good way. There is no limbo. The card is always in a zone. To ignore that it is in a zone may help things make sense in this specific scenario, but in others, it will lead to the wrong conclusions.
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