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trying to find an anti stoneforge mystic deck


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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:47 pm    Post subject: trying to find an anti stoneforge mystic deck Reply with quote

Well, the title says it all. But I want the deck to perform well against other decks too.

I think the best anti stoneforge mystic card is Torpor Orb. But it costs 2, so I have to be able to put it in play turn one, so I need acceleration. Obv, I thought of Mox Opal. Someone talked about Chancellor of the Tangle, but meh.

Here is the first "draw of the deck" (without the lands, I think it's obvious what lands to put there)


Hex Parasite -> against Planeswalkers and Tumble Magnet mainly

4xMemnite -> 0 cost artifact creature to increase metalcraft

4xTorpor Orb ->to stop Stoneoforge Mystic and other stuff)

4xTezzeret, Agent of Bolas -> To transform my artifact in creatures and ultimately win the game (hopefull)

4xDoom Blade (to kill stuff that I don't want)
4xBlack Sun Zenith (same thing)
4xMana Lek ( to stop stuff I don't want)
3xSpell Pierce ( same thing)
4xDarksteel Relic ( to augment metal craft)
3xInquisition (to discard stuff I don't want)
4xMox Opal (to have my Torpor Orb turn 1)

I don't think it's necessary to put a sideboard yet, since it's just to see what you think at first.
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Raybelfast



Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im sorry to say but this is quite awful you dont have anyouts to battersull maindeck if they manage too stick mystic. agent of bolas as your only main threat seems weak. aggro would seem too overrun you.

Personally i agree with your thinking. But if you want too beat caw blade play either caw blade, the red black vamps list with maindeck manic vandal from the recent trial seems decent. personally i play an eldrazi green very close too dv8r's list.
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you understand a purpose of a thread ?

I asked you to give me IDEAS about an anti Mystic Stoneforge deck (not just CAW blade) with what I put out there

Not an opinion about how bad the deck seems (remind you it's a first draw) or a semi-rant about a strategy or about what deck is good or not.

So now, if ANYOTHER person has an interesting idea about how to put together a deck with the card I mentionned, feel free. If not, just hold it.
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JSUOversoul



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, for starters, if you continue to act like a jerk to the people who reply to you, nobody will help you. The first reply you got was simply informing you of the facts, a deck made of the cards you posted WILL NOT beat Caw-Blade (or any other Stoneforge deck, for that matter) on a consistent basis. Forget it, it won't happen. The second reply you got was trying to give you an idea of why you shouldn't just "hate Stoneforge", but beat a strategy that the decks use. Instead of paying attention to this, you whine because they didn't give you an idea of how to beat Stoneforge decks while being good against everything else. When you figure out an answer to that, let the whole world know, the entire Magic world has only been waiting for an answer to that question since PT Paris, oh, 5 months ago or so. But seriously, you need to re-think your attitude if you want help around here, whining and blasting people isn't gonna get you what you want, dude. Maybe you should do this thing called "testplay" on your own, and figure out for yourself what works and what doesn't, instead of trying to get others to do the dirty work for you.
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, first of all calm down.

Second, where did I act like a jerk ? tell me where I did that. Just because I asked "Do you understand a purpose of a thread ?" ?


Third, We're in a forum. In a forum, we continue the thread of what the first post is, no matter what. If someone wants to discuss on "another level" they should just start a new thread and that's it.

Obviously, I'm gonna "whine' (read complain) when my thread is not respected by any means.

Oh and by the way, the first reply I got was anything but facts. It was opinion : saying something like "it's aweful", it's an opinion. And later he says : "personnally, I agree with your thinking'". It's also an opinion. Maybe he said a bit of facts (the batterskull maindeck thing), but that's about it.

It's not really helping saying : play this if you want to beat this. It's not rock-paper-cisors, it's Magic.

Engrishskill got a couple of points, but nonetheless said basically the same thing. And he gave me a good point by saying " ...attacking the actual deck's strategy is what wins a game."

So, my strategy is to put a Torpor Orb maindeck (wich also deals with batterskull) and trying to put it 1st turn. I know it's difficult. But by thinking outside the box, maybe someone will come up with something great.

Can I remind you that NO ONE played Squadron Hawk before Kibler did it ? Can I remind you that Kibler MADE an anti-caw blade deck that worked ? this guy is thinking outside the box. Maybe I think too much outside, but at least I try. I'm not stuck with "this beat this, and that's it".

SO, PLZ, can we get back on the real subject and trying to give IDEAS for what I said and nothing else ?
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JSUOversoul



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just FYI, Torpor Orb does nothing to Batterskull. When the equipment comes into play, the Germ is put into play attached to it. Batterskull isn't a creature, so Torpor Orb will do nothing.

As for the rest of what you said, think what you want, but you still sound like a jerk. I'm done.
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Burton911



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you are confidant in finding a solution for the Caw you might have time for the following problems as well:
the worlds economy crysis, religion, sexsim in mtg articles, fukushima, ehec (this one is about germany, and cucumbers :> )
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dv8r



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's getting boring to keep repeating this, but stoneforge is not actually a very powerful or very fast deck. 2 mana to play stoneforge, 2 to put a sword into play and 2 to equip is a very significant investment on the early turns and does not allow a lot of interraction. A deck which can take advantage of this is well placed to beat cawblade. Batterskull does exist too, so a deck which can ignore batterskull or just play through it easily (such as vampires with all its gatekeepers, or a primeval titan deck which doesn't really care about life is well placed to beat the deck).

Another good example of a deck that can beat cawblade consistently is eldrazi ramp. You can interract better on the first few turns, have a much better late game, and can interract with swords well through mystifying mazes and just casting big guys and beating down.

Trying to hate mystic the card is actually a pretty bad play, especially if the card you are using to do it (torpor orb) is so bad in multiples.

Basically, to beat cawblade with a single card is a bad idea as they run into the roils etc. for permanents, and some counterspells, you must combat it strategically, either by taking advantage of its relatively slow early game, or by trumping it in the late game. Your deck as suggested will be very bad and inneffective (this is not an insult, it is fact...) because it does neither
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Edowardo



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not really helping saying : play this if you want to beat this. It's not rock-paper-cisors, it's Magic.

last time i checked magic was rock(aggro) paper(combo) scissors(control)
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dv8r wrote:
It's getting boring to keep repeating this, but stoneforge is not actually a very powerful or very fast deck. 2 mana to play stoneforge, 2 to put a sword into play and 2 to equip is a very significant investment on the early turns and does not allow a lot of interraction. A deck which can take advantage of this is well placed to beat cawblade. Batterskull does exist too, so a deck which can ignore batterskull or just play through it easily (such as vampires with all its gatekeepers, or a primeval titan deck which doesn't really care about life is well placed to beat the deck).

Another good example of a deck that can beat cawblade consistently is eldrazi ramp. You can interract better on the first few turns, have a much better late game, and can interract with swords well through mystifying mazes and just casting big guys and beating down.

Trying to hate mystic the card is actually a pretty bad play, especially if the card you are using to do it (torpor orb) is so bad in multiples.

Basically, to beat cawblade with a single card is a bad idea as they run into the roils etc. for permanents, and some counterspells, you must combat it strategically, either by taking advantage of its relatively slow early game, or by trumping it in the late game. Your deck as suggested will be very bad and inneffective (this is not an insult, it is fact...) because it does neither


your talk theory is sound, but literally everything you said is wrong and proven through testing. Eldrazi green can't possibly beat cawblade without devoting at least 10 awkward spots to thedeck (like 4 maindeck natures claim 4 beast within? both terrible against non-cawblade generally) and I still would bet money cawblade could be at worst 40/60.

Vampires is literally scared to death of batterskull. If they get hit 1 time the game is over. Just. One. Time. Not to mention leyline of sanctity and celestial purge. I think the only way vampires is remotely favored over cawblade is in the metas where people are maindecking divine offering and gitaxian probe, etc.

The best way to "hate" cawblade is to play mono red. Have at least 12 cheap bolts, shrine of burning rage to finish, and efficient dudes (probably spikeshot elder and not furnace scamp, altough im not sure).

THis combats the stoneforge into batterskull plan with having a reliable bolt early, then you can outrace the 5 casting cost.

4 manic vandal in the sideboard is good, or some number of crush/shatter.

All that being said, and cawblade can still just decide to beat you in a metagaming fashion with kor firewalker/leyline of sanctity.
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dv8r



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a) beast within is good vs the metagame as a whole, there is NO deck it is bad against (even vs vampires and mono red a 3/3 instant speed for 3 mana is actually pretty solid)

b) any eldrazi deck that is playing md nature's claim is trying to play the wrong game with cawblade. you don't want to play situational md cards, you want to fight over tempo. you simply cannot afford to have nature's claim in your hand if they play a jace. this is why fauna shaman is so good in eldrazi ramp, it lets you play early zeniths for mana acceleration whilst allowing you peace of mind that in the late game you will have access to threats. whilst I concede that some awkward md slots might be required, it is very easy for eldrazi ramp to play 2-3 wall of tanglechord in those "awkward" slots (good vs every non twin deck in the metagame and accelerates your overgrown battlements, which you WILL have due to zenith). any eldrazi ramp deck running under 4 zeniths is a bad deck, and yet I see summoning trap more commonly used. THIS is why ppl think ramp is bad vs cawblade.


another reason people think that eldrazi ramp does not beat cawblade is that better players tend to vie away from playing ramp given the choice, even though it is much more consistent in this t2 than at any point before due to zenith.
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[R]Nchamay



Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think wizards saw this and was like...I got this.
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AppleofEris



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 553

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engrishskill wrote:
Vamps so does not scoop to a batterskull connecting lol.

maybe Vamps that are being played by a horrible pilot do, but morons can lose in countless other ways.


The only way Vampires can deal with a turn 3 Batterskull is the waste at least 2 removal spells on it: the first one to kill the germ, then the second one to kill whatever your opponent tries to equip Batterskull to turn 5+
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