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Mimic Vat



 
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Actionjake



Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:06 pm    Post subject: Mimic Vat Reply with quote

I am sure this has already been answered but i dont have the time to search through 22 pages. When a mimic vat makes a token of the creature it copies the casting cost too right? question 2 mimic vat can exile man lands and gideon? how about a blightsteel colossus? or an eldrazi? i think that since it copies the exiled card it copies the converted mana cost. man lands and things that turn into creatures are creatures when they go to the gy so i would think yes. and stuff that returns to the deck if it goes to the GY i am not sure on. any help would be appresiated.

scenario: i have mimic vat imprinted with wall of omens i also have a birthing pod so then i can make a wall of omens draw a card and sac for a 3 casting cost?
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question 1:

Quote:
706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The “copiable values” are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, card type, subtype, supertype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by “as . . . enters the battlefield” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set characteristics, and by abilities that caused the object to be face down. Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question 2:

Mimic Vat
Artifact
Imprint — Whenever a nontoken creature is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, you may exile that card. If you do, return each other card exiled with Mimic Vat to its owner's graveyard.
3, Tap: Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of the exiled card. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step.

Yes, you can exile any nontoken creature including Gideon, man-lands, Blightsteel Colossus (if it goes to the graveyard) ect.. as long as they are creatures when they go to the graveyard. But for example, if you had a man-land imprinted on your Mimic Vat, when you payed the 3 to put a copy of it in play it comes in as a land and you still need to turn it into a creature.


Last edited by magicman85 on Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for cards that get shuffled into your library instead of going to the graveyard, I think these are the rules you should know:

Quote:
614.1. Some continuous effects are replacement effects. Like prevention effects (see rule 615), replacement effects apply continuously as events happen—they aren’t locked in ahead of time. Such effects watch for a particular event that would happen and completely or partially replace that event with a different event. They act like “shields” around whatever they’re affecting.

614.1a Effects that use the word “instead” are replacement effects. Most replacement effects use the word “instead” to indicate what events will be replaced with other events.


So since the Blightsteel Colossus reads "If Blightsteel Colossus would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Blightsteel Colossus and shuffle it into its owner's library instead."
It is a replacement effect. The Mimic Vat's ability is not a replacement effect. (If they were both replacement effects this rule would apply:

Quote:
616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).
)

But since only the Blightsteel's ability is a replacement effect I think the Blightsteel would never go to the graveyard and trigger the Mimic Vat's imprint ability because of this rule:

Quote:
614.6. If an event is replaced, it never happens. A modified event occurs instead, which may in turn trigger abilities. Note that the modified event may contain instructions that can’t be carried out, in which case the impossible instruction is simply ignored.



As for your scenario question, that play is perfectly legal as you have it written.
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Actionjake



Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you magicman thats what i thought and thats how the game played out i doubted myself for a sec so was interested in a second opinion. i was 90% sure i was right and that's how it worked, i tend to doubt myself if i am less than 95% sure, so i just needed to know.
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AppleofEris



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 553

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a great time to note that all tokens have a CMC of 0, except when they have copy effects, such as Mimic Vat of Splinter Twin.
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pg8



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 299

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also note that while Blightsteel uses a replacement effect, legendary Eldrazi do not. When one of those is put in a graveyard, two abilities trigger. You may stack it so that you imprint the Eldrazi on the vat, then shuffle your graveyard into your library (without the Eldrazi)
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah yeah good point pg8. Mimic Vat and legendary Eldrazis are triggered abilities so they go by these rules:

Quote:
603.1. Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as “[Trigger condition], [effect],” and begin with the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” They can also be expressed as “[When/Whenever/At] [trigger event], [effect].”

603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses. (See rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions until none are performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.
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