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illegal plays



 
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:22 am    Post subject: illegal plays Reply with quote

Hi

I need some help with this situation...

What's the correct thing to do here:

=>It's my turn;
=>My opponent have a Precursor-Golem in game with the 2 tokens
=>I have a Grave-Titan in play with the 2 tokens and a Big-Jace
=>I have only 2 untapped lands


1)By mistake, I tapped those 2 lands and tried to kill his Precursor Golem with a Go-for-the-Throat, which I obviously cannot do!
2)He immediately tap one land, bolted my Jace, and after that he said that I cannot target his Golem.
3)I realized that I really couldn't do that play, and I put back Go-for-the-Throat to my hand, and used the 2 lands I tapped before to play a Mana-Leak countering his bolt.

After that he just started to take control of my Go-for-the-Throat and put it on grave, and my Mana-Leak on my Hand, and Jace to grave, without saying a word... And he keep doing and doing that like his life depends on it... (That stupid things that people usually do in MWS instead of communicate like normal people)

Anyway... This was just a casual game, where it's perfectly normal when you put back to hand a card that you thought that you could play, but in fact, you couldn't!

Question:
In this case, what's the correct thing to do? If I made an illegal play, can't I simply go back? It's almost like playing a card without having enough mana to play it... You have to take it back...

1) In a casual game, I know that I didn't do anything wrong... But I really like to know what your opinion are.

2) In a official game, how does this kind of situations works?


Thanks for your help,
And sorry about the big post...
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep your in the right, I think you may get a warning or something irl possibly maybe not but your go for the throat should go to your hand and you can mana leak bolt. I wouldn't sweat about it your opponent joins the long list of douches who play magic.
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a casual game, I was pretty sure that I was right... But I'm not really into tournament rules and stuff like that, cause I only play for fun... I know that there are a lot of rules that we simply ignore when playing casual... But I'm realizing that this is not the case...

Anyway,
Thanks for your help! Appreciated
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Wither



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's your turn then he doesn't have priority to even play bolt because you never played GFTT legally. If he has nothing to respond to you have nothing to counter so you would have to back all the way up to your main phase and do everything over. He doesn't get to play bolt whenever he feels like it though.
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wither wrote:
If it's your turn then he doesn't have priority to even play bolt because you never played GFTT legally. If he has nothing to respond to you have nothing to counter so you would have to back all the way up to your main phase and do everything over. He doesn't get to play bolt whenever he feels like it though.


He certainly was waiting for me to play anything so he could bolt the Jace in response, and he didn't even saw what I played, he immediately bolted the jace, and when he realized that it was an illegal play, he started with that idiot stuff that i said on the first post...

And the best thing of all, is that I had a Doom-Blade on Hand too! If he just said that I couldn't do that play, like a normal person, I'm sure that I would play the Doom-Blade and he could make his move anyway in response to it...


In my opinion, no one has to know all the rules!! What is stupid in my opinion, is all that guys on MWS that don't even ask what's the problem! I already learned a lot when I make a bad play, and my opponent simply explain me the correct way and/or rule... (I'm not talking about that guys who make is own rules during the game, in order to win... eheheh)

And of corse,
There are sites like this one, where anyone can post his doubts about anything, and get answers a few minutes later!

Thank you guys! All judges, stuff, and users, who makes an incredible work here! Thank you all!
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Farseer
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casual Game:

I'd just pack up my cards and play with a nicer player.


League Game:

(Magic-League Penalty Guidelines -- http://www.magic-league.com/info/penalty_guidelines.php )

The first and most important point for league games is that, the SECOND you realise that ANYTHING illegal has happened, in this case when your opponent told you that you cannot target Precursor Golem with Go For The Throat, you should join #judges4you. Your opponent should not have cast Lighting Bolt, neither player should have continued to 3), and you should not have cast Mana Leak.

As to how this situation might be dealt with.

The Active Player will get a Warning for "Game Play Error - Game Rule Violation", Game Rule Violation is a catch-all category for game play errors which do not appear in any other place. These are commonly the result of making plays which are against the rules of the game. The game would then be backed up to before the Active Player took the illegal action of trying to cast Go for the Throat.

However, your opponent's conduct here is also inappropriate. He allowed you to make an illegal play and then attempted to take advantage of that by casting Lightning Bolt targetting Jave the Mind Sculptor. The player would have to be questioned in #judges4you but I would be unsurprised to see Disqualification for "Cheating - Fraud".
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AppleofEris



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 553

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always make sure that your MWS is set to auto-save your logs. This well help immensely.
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st of all, thanks for the explanation.


@ Farseer,

This was a casual game, that's why nether of us joined #judges4you... I would, even in a casual match, but most of the casual players are "Lords of the Rules", they are always right about everything, so they just leave when there are any "rule discussion"... You know how it is...
He starts calling you noob and leave right away. Everyone knows who the really noob is... But what can we do?... =\

Quote:
Your opponent should not have cast Lighting Bolt, neither player should have continued to 3), and you should not have cast Mana Leak.

I'm almost 100% sure that he cast his Bolt without even seeing what I was playing, because I didn't used any of Jace abilities at that moment and he needed anything to kill Jace in response... He only realized that I had made an illegal move after that! That's probably what made him so pissed, and that's why he wanted me to keep my play even when it was an illegal play...


Anyway,
My doubt was about the League-Game's rules... As I said, I don't play "official games", just casual, and I didn't knew how does this kind of situation works. When you made an illegal play or anything like that... But that question was already answered!



Thanks for your help!

And thanks for the advice AppleofEris.


(Sorry about the off-topic)
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AppleofEris



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 553

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another piece of priceless advice...finding opponents in #Magic-League is better not just because of this kind of shenanigans, but also because playing against people better than you makes you a better player.
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