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Pili-Pala + Grand Architect



 
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Zagar



Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:01 am    Post subject: Pili-Pala + Grand Architect Reply with quote

First of all I wanted to clarify weather Grand Architect's 2nd activated ability is a mana ability as it seems to be meeting the 3 criteria according to Magic Comprehensive Rules.

Basicly I wanted to ask what happens if one player controls a Pili-Pala(not summoning sick) and casts a Grand Architect. Is there any timing after the spell resolves when the opponent can stop with the combo with a removal?
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Farseer
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand Architect's 2nd activated ability

Grand Architect's second activated ability is a mana ability:

"Tap an untapped blue creature you control: Add 2 to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast artifact spells or activate abilities of artifacts."

Quote:
605.1a An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets three criteria: it doesn’t have a target, it could put mana into a player’s mana pool when it resolves, and it’s not a loyalty ability. (See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”)



Pili-Pala and Grand Architect

No, this infinite mana combo cannot be interrupted as long as Pili-Pala is already blue. Your opponent could obviously respond to the Grand Architect's first activated abilty to stop this combo before it gets started.

Quote:
605.3b An activated mana ability doesn’t go on the stack, so it can’t be targeted, countered, or otherwise responded to. Rather, it resolves immediately after it is activated. (See rule 405.6c.)


Last edited by Farseer on Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Zeph



Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can however send Pili-Pala to graveyard (let's say with Nameless Inversion) before Grand Architect comes onto battlefield That is: in the stack, while it's still a spell and not a permanent-creature.

Another option is to kill it in response to Architect attempt of making it blue with its second ability.
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Conkisstador



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your opponent gets them back with say Reveillark, and has blue mana available, you will not be able to stop him. Once pili is blue the entire combo is mana abilities that don't use the stack.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conkisstador wrote:
If your opponent gets them back with say Reveillark, and has blue mana available, you will not be able to stop him. Once pili is blue the entire combo is mana abilities that don't use the stack.


pila pala will have summoning sickness if u bring it back with lark
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Raybelfast



Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Reveilark brings back both Pila-Pala and Grand Architect, assuming you have blue mana available then by making Pila Pala blue it could then tap itself and start the combo regardless of summoning sickness due to Architect's ability. which doesnt care whether the creature has summoning sickness. just the fact that it is blue.

If you did not have blue mana available when they are returned then you would not be able to start the combo again.
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Farseer
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raybelfast wrote:
If Reveilark brings back both Pila-Pala and Grand Architect, assuming you have blue mana available then by making Pila Pala blue it could then tap itself and start the combo regardless of summoning sickness due to Architect's ability. which doesnt care whether the creature has summoning sickness. just the fact that it is blue.

If you did not have blue mana available when they are returned then you would not be able to start the combo again.


Step 1 of the combo, tap the Pili-Pala with Grand Architect's ability, will work.

Step 2 of the combo, use the {2},{Q} ability of Pili-Pala, will not work as Pilia-Pala has "summoning sickness".


({Q} is the untap symbol.)
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Raybelfast



Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah so It's own ability cannot be used. Without tricks such as thousand year elixir if returned that way
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