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Creatureless Burn (PyroChief)


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CrushU
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:04 pm    Post subject: Creatureless Burn (PyroChief) Reply with quote

First, the deck:

// Lands
2 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
6 [ZEN] Mountain (3)
6 [ZEN] Swamp (3)
1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [M10] Dragonskull Summit

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Burst Lightning
4 [ROE] Staggershock
4 [ZEN] Pyromancer Ascension
4 [M10] Lightning Bolt
4 [ZEN] Bloodchief Ascension
3 [ROE] Consuming Vapors
3 [ROE] Surreal Memoir
4 [M11] Pyroclasm
4 [MBS] Go for the Throat
4 [M11] Sign in Blood

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [M10] Doom Blade
SB: 3 [WWK] Chain Reaction
SB: 4 [SOM] Shatter
SB: 4 [ROE] Traitorous Instinct

Land Base:
Weird fetches Just Because. Realistically they could be changed to be Tarns/Catacombs. The only decent reason for them to be different is to keep the opponent guessing, and that's not usually a good reason.

Could probably use Blackcleave Cliffs (the Scars dual land) but I'm wary of them because I see them slow down decks more often than speeding them up.

One of the problems with this deck is getting screwed out of black mana, however. The times I'm sitting on one black mana staring morosely at a Sign in Blood in hand are numerous.

The Game Plan:
Well I'm going to do direct damage to you. Lots of it. The big issue is that Leyline of Sanctity just makes me scoop. (I have a version of the deck that runs 4 Demystify sideboard and 4 Marsh Flats with 1 Plains JUST for this reason.) I can theoretically kill someone without burning their face, using active bloodchiefs and killing their creatures instead, but I need to get an active bloodchief. Could possibly solve with Chandra's Outrage to deal damage to get bloodchief active.

Early game, I dearly want to drop a Bloodchief Ascension on turn 1, then spend my next two turns burning face to make it active. Ideally, turn 2 is a burn spell to their face at end of their second main phase, turn 3 is a Staggershock to their face at end of their second main phase, giving me an active Bloodchief on turn 4. Turn 4, ideally, would be to drop a Pyromancer Ascension and use the other two mana for killing dudes, on their turn, so bloodchief causes damage.

Once I have an active bloodchief, all my burn turns into removal, as I just kill creatures to make bloodchief kill them. If I put out a new bloodchief, the active one usually gets it active very quickly. It's easy for me to activate pyromancer, as my rebound spells will activate it if I have one in the graveyard already. Surreal Memoir will return almost anything in the deck into my hand, but the point is to activate pyromancer with the Rebound spells.

Problems:
Any deck that focuses on artifacts or enchantments wrecks me. It's bad enough that I'm considering throwing Lux Cannon in just for colorless 'Remove Anything'. Shatter exists solely for destroying their artifacts.

Aggro decks fare rather poorly, as I like killing their creatures, and Pyroclasm does that. If it gets desperate, like vs Token WW or possibly Kuldotha Red, Chain Reaction comes in from the side to take care of it.

Control decks fare rather poorly, as most of them are dedicated to stopping creatures. All their creature removal spells are useless. The downside is that Revoke Existence, seeing play due to artifact/Tezz decks, also destroys my Ascensions. Traitorous Instinct comes in from the side if they're only playing one or two creatures.

Valakut is interesting to play against. I absolutely need to get an active bloodchief as quickly as possible. The lifegain is incredibly useful, and them throwing spells to the graveyard to ramp helps me kill them faster. There is a possibility of needing Tectonic Edges just for this matchup.


So. Questions, comments? Is creatureless burn viable?

(Played against an Idol deck earlier. That was pretty funny how quickly I died game 1 because I couldn't get rid of the Idol at all... G2/3 went much better with shatters.)
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theres not point to playing fetchlands at all, i would play 4 lavaclaw reaches and 4 blackcleave cliffs in addition to the 4 dragonskull summit you have to get a more consistent manabase
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blitzer2k7



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol go go American Idol.dec! (I was the idol deck btw)
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CrushU
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gypsy wrote:
theres not point to playing fetchlands at all, i would play 4 lavaclaw reaches and 4 blackcleave cliffs in addition to the 4 dragonskull summit you have to get a more consistent manabase


There is a point to playing fetches: Deck thinning. Drawing land with this deck (once I hit 4, anyway) is a really bad thing.

That said, playing the Lavaclaw Reaches is an idea... if I run out of burn spells I can at least smack face with a land. Provided they won't use their otherwise-useless burn spells on me.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thining your deck is pointless, if you have no real use for fetches then you are just dealing damage to yourself for no reason
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CrushU
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gypsy wrote:
thining your deck is pointless


Ok, then. I guess this conversation won't be going anywhere. Sad
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant that playing fetches to thin your deck is not a good reason to play fetchlands. if you dont have any sort of need for fetches, like landfall cards or to shuffle your library after you brainstorm, then you should just play more basic lands as the damage taken from fetchlands can add up in a game
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Lynolf



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gypsy wrote:
I meant that playing fetches to thin your deck is not a good reason to play fetchlands. if you dont have any sort of need for fetches, like landfall cards or to shuffle your library after you brainstorm, then you should just play more basic lands as the damage taken from fetchlands can add up in a game


This. Mr. Green
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Ninja87



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 [ROE] Surreal Memoir
Really isn't that great.. 4 mana late game socery sux even if it returns 2 cards...
try Contagion Clasp instead... it works with your quest counters as well as some cheap creature kills..
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CrushU
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja87 wrote:
3 [ROE] Surreal Memoir
Really isn't that great.. 4 mana late game socery sux even if it returns 2 cards...
try Contagion Clasp instead... it works with your quest counters as well as some cheap creature kills..


You may be underestimating the power of THE DARK SIDE, er, I mean, the power of a surreal memoir with a pyromancer on the board. The only issue I have with surreal memoir is that every so often, I have pyromancer on the board with a whole bunch of singleton instants in the graveyard. This is the only time casting it is a bad idea. And you didn't use it as an argument. Sad

Clasp: No. Three reasons. First of all, it isn't an instant/sorcery, so doesn't do anything for pyromancer (short of adding a quest counter to it for four mana). Second, I have enough creature kill. There's nothing this will kill that my multitude of burn and removal won't. (Ok, except maybe Blight Mamba? Nope, Consuming Vapors. Nevermind.) Thirdly, while the idea of proliferate is actually a pretty good one, especially recurring proliferate, I actually don't need proliferate more than once. This means I could run a different card, Spreading Sickness, if proliferate was really worth it. (If I'm at five mana and desperately need another counter on something, then sure. ... Which actually happens a few times.)

Last time on the fetches now: I would much prefer to have 10/48 chance of drawing land to 16/54. It's a Very Small Difference, this is true, but I need every slim bit I can get. Once upon a time I tried Prophetic Prism for mana fixing and cantrip, and ended up taking them out because they slowed me down WAY too much. Fetches don't manafix, but they do speed the deck up. The times I've lost by 1 point of life because of fetching is a Non-Positive Integer. It's enough that I'd consider running Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic for fixing+thinning, but they're MUCH too slow for this deck. I will, however, test Lavaclaws and also try Blackcleaves.

I do feel bad because I feel like I'm just shooting down all suggestions, but I really hadn't thought of the Lavaclaws. >_> (Blackcleave I'd considered, but been unsure I could a) get them irl or b) make sure they wouldn't slow the deck down.) Proliferate is a mechanic I'd considered abusing with ascensions, but it would be with the Blue ascension, as that one's worth getting more counters on it, because it's extremely difficult. The black ascension is easy to get counters, and the red one, in the right deck, is also easy.

Keep suggestions coming, please. Smile I could really use more ways to deal with Firewalker or Phyrexian Crusader...
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how do fetches speed ur deck up, and your numbers dont make any sense
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Bigshow



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1374
Location: Igloo town

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fetches don't speed up your deck tard.
Rampant Growth. NOW THAT! speeds up your deck.
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CrushU
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turn 5 drawing 5th land vs Turn 5 drawing a spell. Spell wins games faster than my 5th land.
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Ninja87



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrushU wrote:
Turn 5 drawing 5th land vs Turn 5 drawing a spell. Spell wins games faster than my 5th land.


Guys, obviously it "speeds up" the deck in different ways, not the typical mana ramp speed up.. I agree with deck thining.. I agree it does help but it depends on the metagame.. if you're meeting more controls, hell yea, 8 fetch lands would be awesome.. but if you're meeting more aggro then cutting it back on the fetch lands would be better..

and ok fine, non instant/socery isn't worth it.. but still the pyromancer acension was actually better back then with blue in it instead of black.. it was awesome with the archive traps and the rune traps along with howling mines and the 4cc mine.. i dunno about this one..
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CrushU
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I can give you that the RU was probably a better Pyromancer deck. Time Warp was extreeeeeeeeemely good in the deck.

Still, this version works fine. Pyromancer is the lategame gas to keep the burn going, bloodchief is earlygame to keep pressure up. It's surprising how synergistic this deck is... Drop a bloodchief and start burning, filling your graveyard while you activate bloodchief... Drop a pyromancer with a full graveyard and force them to choose which one to stop if they even have enchantment destruction.

It's amazing because I've not seen a better argument for Blue to run bounce spells than this deck. :/ The worst matchup for me is a Ux control deck that uses 4+ bounce spells.
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