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counterspells / fetching stack



 
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:23 am    Post subject: counterspells / fetching stack Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm pretty sure that I know this, but when another player starts to say I'm wrong, unless I'm 100% sure, I like to ask... There are a lot of rules that we think we know, and that's not exactly true every time... Anyway, the situation is this:

It's my opponent turn, and I have 2 fetchlands in play (Misty Rainforest), he plays something in is turn, and I fetch 2 lands and play Mana Leak to counter it.

Is this an illegal play? Cause he started saying that I cant do that:

"<Topolik> you cant cast this spell"
"<Topolik> i play koth u response fetch ability"
"<Topolik> resolve stack"

I'm not going to put all the chatting cause its not relevant, but this is basically why he said I cant do it...

My question, obviously, is
Can I do that to counter an opponent spell, or is he right about the "fetching resolving thing"?


Thanks for your help,

cHaKaL-PT
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VsTheWorld



Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right. The stack does not resolve, rather individual objects on the stack resolve one at a time. His spell goes on the stack and you may respond by activating one Misty Rainforest, activating the other, and casting Mana Leak targeting his spell.
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Farseer
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Below is the comp rules dealing with priority. In a nutshell, the stack does not resolve all at once. In fact, you can even add new objects to the stack after one spell or ability has resolved but others are still waiting to resolve.

The highlighted sections below spell this out:

Your opponent plays a spell and passes priority.

You have priority. You can play acitvated abilities [116.1b]. You activate the ability of Misty Rainforest #1.

You have played an activated ability; you keep priority [116.3b].

Becasue you have priority, you can play acitvated abilities [116.1b]. You activate the ability of Misty Rainforest #2.

You have played an activated ability; you keep priority [116.3b].

You pass priority. Your opponent also passes priority. Both players have passed priority. The top object on the stack resolves [116.4] and you search for land #1.

Then your opponent gets priority because an ability has resolved [116.3b].

No player wants to do anything. Your opponent passes priority. You pass priority. Both players have passed priority. The top object on the stack resolves [116.4] and you search for land #2.

Then your opponent gets priority because an ability has resolved [116.3b].

Your opponent has no plays. Your opponent passes priority. You have priority so you can cast Mana Leak [116.1a]. You target the first spell that your opponent put on the stack.

You pass priority. Your opponent passes priority. Both players have passed priority. The top object on the stack resolves [116.4] and Mana Leak counters Koth.

Then your opponent gets priority because an ability has resolved [116.3b].

There are no more objects on the stack and you have countered Koth. Nice play!

Hope you found this informative.



Quote:
116. Timing and Priority

116.1. Unless a spell or ability is instructing a player to take an action, which player can take actions at any given time is determined by a system of priority. The player with priority may cast spells, activate abilities, and take special actions.

116.1a A player may cast an instant spell any time he or she has priority. A player may cast a noninstant spell during his or her main phase any time he or she has priority and the stack is empty.

116.1b A player may activate an activated ability any time he or she has priority.

116.1c A player may take some special actions any time he or she has priority. A player may take other special actions during his or her main phase any time he or she has priority and the stack is empty. See rule 115, “Special Actions.”

116.1d A player may activate a mana ability whenever he or she has priority, whenever he or she is casting a spell or activating an ability that requires a mana payment, or whenever a rule or effect asks for a mana payment (even in the middle of casting or resolving a spell or activating or resolving an ability).

116.2. Other kinds of abilities and actions are automatically generated or performed by the game rules, or are performed by players without receiving priority.

116.2a Triggered abilities can trigger at any time, including while a spell is being cast, an ability is being activated, or a spell or ability is resolving. (See rule 603, “Handling Triggered Abilities.”) However, nothing actually happens at the time an ability triggers. Each time a player would receive priority, each ability that has triggered but hasn’t yet been put on the stack is put on the stack. See rule 116.5.

116.2b Static abilities continuously affect the game. Priority doesn’t apply to them. (See rule 604, “Handling Static Abilities,” and rule 611, “Continuous Effects.”)

116.2c Turn-based actions happen automatically when certain steps or phases begin. They’re dealt with before a player would receive priority. See rule 116.3a. Turn-based actions also happen automatically when each step and phase ends; no player receives priority afterward. See rule 703, “Turn-Based Actions.”

116.2d State-based actions happen automatically when certain conditions are met. See rule 704. They’re dealt with before a player would receive priority. See rule 116.5.

116.2e Resolving spells and abilities may instruct players to make choices or take actions, or may allow players to activate mana abilities. Even if a player is doing so, no player has priority while a spell or ability is resolving. See rule 608, “Resolving Spells and Abilities.”

116.3. Which player has priority is determined by the following rules:

116.3a The active player receives priority at the beginning of most steps and phases, after any turn-based actions (such as drawing a card during the draw step; see rule 703) have been dealt with and abilities that trigger at the beginning of that phase or step have been put on the stack. No player receives priority during the untap step. Players usually don’t get priority during the cleanup step (see rule 514.3).

116.3b The active player receives priority after a spell or ability (other than a mana ability) resolves.

116.3c If a player has priority when he or she casts a spell, activates an ability, or takes a special action, that player receives priority afterward.

116.3d If a player has priority and chooses not to take any actions, that player passes. If any mana is in that player’s mana pool, he or she announces what mana is there. Then the next player in turn order receives priority.

116.4. If all players pass in succession (that is, if all players pass without taking any actions in between passing), the spell or ability on top of the stack resolves or, if the stack is empty, the phase or step ends.

116.5. Each time a player would get priority, the game first performs all applicable state-based actions as a single event (see rule 704, “State-Based Actions”), then repeats this process until no state-based actions are performed. Then triggered abilities are put on the stack (see rule 603, “Handling Triggered Abilities”). These steps repeat in order until no further state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the player who would have received priority does so.

116.6. In a multiplayer game using the shared team turns option, teams rather than individual players have priority. See rule 805, “Shared Team Turns Option.”

116.7. If a player with priority casts a spell or activates an activated ability while another spell or ability is already on the stack, the new spell or ability has been cast or activated “in response to” the earlier spell or ability. The new spell or ability will resolve first. See rule 608, “Resolving Spells and Abilities.”
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your help!

As I said, I was almost 100% sure about this, but there are so many rules that it is possible I was wrong... That's why I like to make sure when I'm not 100% sure...

Anyway, thanks for your help, and a special thank to Farseer post. A very complete post about how stack and priorities works in this case! Thanks for that!

I'm really tired of this guys who started to say that we cant do this or that, and they are the ones who knows all the rules (and the most stupid thing on all this, is that most of the times they are talking about simple rules that everyone or almost everyone knows how it works, and they know that!! And still try to say that we are the wrong ones)... And in the end, they are the ones who leave the game calling us noobs... lol

I love this game, and I really hate that there are some people who constantly try to ruin what could be a "perfect game"...
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