Magic-League.com Forum Index Magic-League.com
Forums of Magic-League: Free Online tcg playing; casual or tournament play.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

UG Aggro Token Deck: Need Advice


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks
Author Message
Stypher



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:32 am    Post subject: UG Aggro Token Deck: Need Advice Reply with quote

So i have been sick of playing all the tier 1 decks that are everywhere these days. I decided to try a deck that is original in a way, taking ideas from multiple different decks. Here is the original deck list:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
5 [M11] Forest (1)
4 [M11] Island (1)
4 [WWK] Khalni Garden
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest

// Creatures
3 [M11] Llanowar Elves
2 [M11] Sylvan Ranger
4 [M11] Birds of Paradise
4 [ROE] Nest Invader
3 [ROE] Sea Gate Oracle
3 [ROE] Kozilek's Predator

// Spells
3 [M11] Mana Leak
4 [M11] Overwhelming Stampede
2 [M11] Garruk Wildspeaker
4 [ROE] Unified Will
4 [ROE] Shared Discovery
3 [ZEN] Spreading Seas
1 [ZEN] Eldrazi Monument

Then after some play testing i have added a side board and also changed some stuff up.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [WWK] Khalni Garden
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [M11] Island (1)
5 [M11] Forest (1)

// Creatures
2 [M11] Sylvan Ranger
2 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
3 [ROE] Sea Gate Oracle
3 [M11] Llanowar Elves
3 [ROE] Kozilek's Predator
4 [ROE] Nest Invader
4 [M11] Birds of Paradise

// Spells
1 [ZEN] Eldrazi Monument
2 [M11] Jace Beleren
2 [M11] Garruk Wildspeaker
3 [M11] Mana Leak
3 [ROE] Shared Discovery
4 [M11] Overwhelming Stampede
4 [ROE] Unified Will

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spreading Seas
SB: 4 [M11] Flashfreeze
SB: 2 [M11] Acidic Slime
SB: 2 [M11] Clone
SB: 4 [M11] Negate

So i think i might take out wurm coil or something like that cause i never play it at all since i only win using overwhelming etc.. Tips please Thanks

Edit: You may have included more information about your thinking behind aspects of this deck in later posts, but it is important to explain relevant details in your opening post.

People who have yet to engage with you in improving the deck and exchanging ideas are not going to take the time to read through all of the replies if the initial deck list(s) is/are unimpressive and there is no info to make them think otherwise. More content is also useful for fueling constructive debate and getting the ball rolling on ideas.


-EngSk
Back to top
Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your deck isn't focused enough. You have some less optimal cards in it that could be replaced. If I were to play this deck (I'll test it a bit later) I would build it like this:

// Lands
2 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [WWK] Khalni Garden
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
6 [M11] Island (1)
6 [M11] Forest (1)

// Creatures

4 [ROE] Sea Gate Oracle
4 [M11] Llanowar Elves
3 [ROE] Kozilek's Predator
4 [ROE] Nest Invader
4 [M11] Birds of Paradise

// Spells
2 [ZEN] Eldrazi Monument
4 [M11] Jace Beleren
2 [M11] Garruk Wildspeaker
4 [ZEN] Beastmaster's Ascension
3 [M11] Overwhelming Stampede
4 [ROE] Unified Will

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas
SB: 4 [M11] Flashfreeze
SB: 3 [M11] Acidic Slime
SB: 4 [M11] Jinxed Idol

The idea is to kill your opponent. A lot. The Unified Wills are good for countering opposing Titans and such, but you generally want to play creatures/tokens as much as possible rather than leave mana untapped to counter a (??). Cobra Trap could find a home in this deck against Tectonic Edge and such. Jinxed Idol is fun sideboard tech against creature-less (or close to it) decks like UW Control and Valakut, but it might be too cute. Four Jaces are necessary I think with Jace 2.0 being so overpowered and all.

I'm not going to sugarcoat it; I don't think this deck has the power level to be competitive. I like the idea and it seems fun. I might even try it out at an FNM. But please don't try to play this thinking that it's going to bring home the bacon.
Back to top
Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somebody mention bacon?
Back to top
seedub



Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont feel like making up a list but at first glance my immediate reactions would be to cut overwhelming stampede; without predator with the creatures ur running nothing has power over 1 and generally doesnt seem very good compared to the other options of ascension, garruk and monument. secondly, as mentioned, beastmasters ascension seems great for that deck. probably want some kind of bounce spell too. JtMS comes to mind but hes not the most affordable card and may not even fit very well in a deck like this (tho is he ever really bad?) tho i do like his ability to bounce your own predators and oracles. shared discovery is also amazing for a deck like this and is kinda one of the cards that makes ug tokens worth running so never drop below 4. as to what the best creatures and spells are and what their numbers should be is something that would take some testing tho obv. these suggestions tho should help make it more consistently powerful without losing any explosiveness.


maybe if i get bored ill come up with a list later cause this is a fun deck and while not tier 1 can certainly be good enough to beat anything.

btw i dont really know alandarial but ive seen his comments around these formus before and he is definately not someone i would take advice from. just looking at the list he posted reaffirms this.
Back to top
Stypher



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so ill be addressing each comment in sections.

Ascension was in the original mono green version of this deck but was cut due to the increasing SB of artifact destroy or exile that everyone should have noticed now. If I go against a white quest deck I lose because attacking would mean losing one of my creatures. But having the Ascension without 7 creatures in play is basically extreme venerable to red decks and board wipes. Such as getting to 6 and then a board wipe makes me lose the game if I donít have counters in hand.

Do not forget that Garruk also produces 3/3 beasts that can stack with it also. I find that all I have to do is stop any kill spells to my predators and I make it out fine. Why overwhelming and not ascension? Trample should be self explanatory. Most times I use overwhelming It will be with Garruk +3/+3 buff meaning itís a surefire kill. With the shared discoveries and the card draw it should not be too difficult to get what I need.

Baby Jace is actually a fake target. I am trying to make people to attack my baby Jace all I want is to draw cards. If that means that it cost me 3 to draw 1 and dodge a turn of attacks, I am good. Big Jace is too hard to get out as it cost 4 and I am to play a Garruk on turn 4 instead of Jace and over whelming on the 5th making this deck crazy hard to stop. So turn 3 would be to draw out any real threats to Garruk.

Bounce might be a good card to consider as into the roil counts as a card draw AND a bounce with kicker resulting in an overall win.
Jinxed IdolÖ. Cool. Might actually be a great idea? Will test it out and post a reply about it after about 10 games with tier 1 decks.
Cobra trap was a possible card as a SB but I found that if they wanted to waste to lose 2 mana to kill my 1 khani garden go for it. I love to sacrifice my eldrazi tokens for mana.

Shared Discovery at 3 should be fine as I expect to see one during the game and that would usually be all I need to get my Garruk + Overwhelming combo out =).

Worthy mention is the 2 clones in my SB. They are actually extremely useful and I think that they will be played way more as the set progresses a bit more as I have actually beat like 70% of my opponents with that card. Ramp Decks that try and force out a eldrazi or people who play Frost titans lose to it fairly consistently as he plays his and I play clone tapping his out. Boom Win.

Thank you guys for the quick comments. Please keep them coming.

Back to top
Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stypher wrote:
Ok so ill be addressing each comment in sections.

Ascension was in the original mono green version of this deck but was cut due to the increasing SB of artifact destroy or exile that everyone should have noticed now. If I go against a white quest deck I lose because attacking would mean losing one of my creatures. But having the Ascension without 7 creatures in play is basically extreme venerable to red decks and board wipes. Such as getting to 6 and then a board wipe makes me lose the game if I donít have counters in hand.

Do not forget that Garruk also produces 3/3 beasts that can stack with it also. I find that all I have to do is stop any kill spells to my predators and I make it out fine. Why overwhelming and not ascension? Trample should be self explanatory. Most times I use overwhelming It will be with Garruk +3/+3 buff meaning itís a surefire kill. With the shared discoveries and the card draw it should not be too difficult to get what I need.

Baby Jace is actually a fake target. I am trying to make people to attack my baby Jace all I want is to draw cards. If that means that it cost me 3 to draw 1 and dodge a turn of attacks, I am good. Big Jace is too hard to get out as it cost 4 and I am to play a Garruk on turn 4 instead of Jace and over whelming on the 5th making this deck crazy hard to stop. So turn 3 would be to draw out any real threats to Garruk.

Bounce might be a good card to consider as into the roil counts as a card draw AND a bounce with kicker resulting in an overall win.
Jinxed IdolÖ. Cool. Might actually be a great idea? Will test it out and post a reply about it after about 10 games with tier 1 decks.
Cobra trap was a possible card as a SB but I found that if they wanted to waste to lose 2 mana to kill my 1 khani garden go for it. I love to sacrifice my eldrazi tokens for mana.

Shared Discovery at 3 should be fine as I expect to see one during the game and that would usually be all I need to get my Garruk + Overwhelming combo out =).

Worthy mention is the 2 clones in my SB. They are actually extremely useful and I think that they will be played way more as the set progresses a bit more as I have actually beat like 70% of my opponents with that card. Ramp Decks that try and force out a eldrazi or people who play Frost titans lose to it fairly consistently as he plays his and I play clone tapping his out. Boom Win.

Thank you guys for the quick comments. Please keep them coming.



I still think Clone might be too cute. It sounds good and it's worth testing, but I feel that too often you're going to have it in hand wishing it was something else.

Shared Discovery as a three-of isn't a terrible idea I suppose... I just don't like giving my opponents a Time Walk. It can also be a dead card against control if they can manage your threats well enough or simply wipe the board.

I think you're underestimating the power of Jace 1.0. In a format dominated by his $90 counterpart, a "pre-emptive strike" of turn three Jace is far underrated. It forces them to deal with it before dropping their own or just kills one of theirs.

seedub wrote:
btw i dont really know alandarial but ive seen his comments around these formus before and he is definately not someone i would take advice from. just looking at the list he posted reaffirms this.


Yeah, you probably shouldn't take advice from someone who actually knows what he's talking about and tests his decks and every card choice extensively. Instead, you should probably listen to the random guy with a whopping seven posts who rarely contributes to the community at all other than to flame and give people terrible advice.

Seedub, you obviously haven't played Magic for very long if you miss the extremely simple synergy this deck has and why Overwhelming Stampede is generally going to be the win-con. Go troll supportive community members somewhere else, and keep your nose out of the threads of players new to Magic-League.

Oh, and I was wrong. Apparently this deck can compete.


//NAME: U/G Shaman from DeckBase.net
//URL: http://deckbase.net/deck-shaman-333.html
//AUTHOR: Michael Flynn
//EVENT: (7th)

//Creatures
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Joraga Treespeaker
3 Nest Invader
3 Sea Gate Oracle
4 Vengevine
4 Lotus Cobra

//Spells
4 Unified Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Eldrazi Monument

//Lands
4 Khalni Garden
6 Forest
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Scalding Tarn

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Obstinate Baloth
SB: 4 Flashfreeze
SB: 2 Jace Beleren
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 1 Tajuru Preserver
SB: 3 Leatherback Baloth
SB: 1 Eldrazi Monument
Back to top
Stypher



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the deck can hold its ground in at least. The problem with the other guys deck is that it isn't very reliable. He either hits it or doesn't and if he doesn't get the mana sources such as lotus, Joraga, BOP and such then he is almost assured dead.

Vengvine might be a good card to consider since i do run shared discovery. With some testing done now i found that round 1 i win since no one knows what my deck does and i surprise them and round 2 is 50/50 if they are running red deck wins or valukut. U/B control
i seem to win fairly consistent cause of my counters and my massive flooding of creatures that they can't deal with other then with consume the meek which i ALWAYS save 1 counter in hand for it.
Clone is working way better then i expected since most games i copy a frost titan and it ends the game. Eldrazi ramp just dies to it and so does B/G grave titan decks.
Now that i think of it i did underate baby jace. It jills bigger jace and lets you draw a card on t3 preventing them form using their big jace on their 4th.
The time walk factor isn't too bad because most of the time i tap 2 eldrazi tokens and 2 random cards maybe nest and oracle and draw into another nest or predator meaning i play both and go up 3 guys and end up with 7 creatures in play leading to a win if they don't play 2 board wipes against my 1 unified will or my negate.
Should i run vengvine is the big problem because i took out the wurm coils and without fauna i would need to hard cast them out. suggestions?
Back to top
Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not reliable? The guy took seventh out of a huge pool of players... it's obviously at least fairly consistent. A more rampy version of the deck took third in the same tournament.

If Valakut doesn't hit their ramp, they lose. His deck runs a close amount of ramp, and only needs to hit one to push ahead of their opponent. I think the problem is actually the topdecks... drawing ramp late game is usually not a good thing.

I've been testing it and it's pretty solid. It's probably not optimal, I think four Jace in his build is the correct number (as it usually is) and the deck needs more ways to kill their opponent.
Back to top
Stypher



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What i mean is that the deck is easily disruped unlike mine. I have a feeling he lost to like a Red deck or some type of combination of red because he plays any 1 cost card for ramp and then it gets bolted now your down 2 turns to regain momentum. G2 would be crazy hard to beat the red deck cause what could you do other then save your counters for the burns when it hits your Planes walkers. The deck im not saying is worse then mine. I just find lotus cobras and joragas ez targets to get picked off and without he early spurt you lose in a horrible way. Also as you pointed out the problem of late game such as say turn 5 seeing like more ramp without any card draw ability other then jace means you also lose. Baby jace would have worked alot better in that deck probally.
Back to top
Stypher



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What i got out of that is whether a semi ramp rush deck with blue as a disruptive factor allowing you to either throw out something like a frost titan or even an onmath (i know terrible card but might work if the idea floats) If so then i believe its possible. As a tier one contender? even maybe so. It would require alot of testing. Ill make a version and you should also. Then we will post it and see what happens.
Back to top
Stypher



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well there seems to be ok cards such as leatherback baloth, Bala Ged dude that levels for 1G, Omnath even maybe if i you can keep him alive its great, Frost titans and vengevine just to name a few. It is very possible to create a mid range aggro. My deck will be posted up soon, Or at least the mid range aggro one. So any other suggestions on my original deck as a side note?
Back to top
Stypher



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There. Instead move out the blue and go straight into a pure aggro mid range rush deck. And no having GGG card doesn't mean it sucks at all. Even in blue it is ez as you are running 4 elfs and 4 birds with 8 fetch lands that get you green so i don't see the problem. Beastmaster of Bala Ged is a rapist card. Think about it its a turn 3 swing for 4. Don't see the problem with that. That just means that at turn 2 you can play a 2/2 and by turn 3 if your opening draw was good you have 3 [3 lands + 2 mana sources (from Turn 1 and Turn 2) - 2 for level] to play either a leather back baloth or another beast master and have 1 extra for a bolt if needed to stop that pesky jace.
// Lands
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [M11] Rootbound Crag
4 [WWK] Raging Ravine
4 [SOM] Copperline Gorge
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
6 [SOM] Forest (1)

// Creatures
4 [M11] Birds of Paradise
3 [M11] Inferno Titan
3 [WWK] Wolfbriar Elemental
4 [WWK] Leatherback Baloth
3 [ROE] Beastbreaker of Bala Ged
4 [ZEN] Lotus Cobra
4 [ROE] Joraga Treespeaker

// Spells
2 [M11] Garruk Wildspeaker
2 [SOM] Tumble Magnet
3 [M11] Overwhelming Stampede
4 [M11] Lightning Bolt

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M11] Garruk Wildspeaker
SB: 4 [SOM] Arc Trail
SB: 3 [M11] Acidic Slime
SB: 4 [ZEN] River Boa
SB: 2 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 1 [SOM] Tumble Magnet
Back to top
ManaLeak



Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alandariel wrote:
Not reliable? The guy took seventh out of a huge pool of players... it's obviously at least fairly consistent. A more rampy version of the deck took third in the same tournament.

If Valakut doesn't hit their ramp, they lose. His deck runs a close amount of ramp, and only needs to hit one to push ahead of their opponent. I think the problem is actually the topdecks... drawing ramp late game is usually not a good thing.

I've been testing it and it's pretty solid. It's probably not optimal, I think four Jace in his build is the correct number (as it usually is) and the deck needs more ways to kill their opponent.


I still belive he took 7th due to jace the mind sculptor being in his deck. the guy who took 3rd
had better stand alone creatures like frost titan
Back to top
Stypher



Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is why i believe clone needs better consideration. Whoever plays the frost titan (or clone) seconds wins.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All content on this page may not be reproduced without consent of Magic-League Directors.
Magic the Gathering is TM and copyright Wizards of the Coast, Inc, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved.


About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy