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The Times Are A Changin'


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AppleofEris



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 553

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:14 am    Post subject: The Times Are A Changin' Reply with quote

Roo has already been all over this apparently, but for those of you who don't know...deckcheck.net is about to not exist anymore...

Quote:
From deckcheck.net:
Please note: Because of recent activities from WotC's side (for smaller parts this and for bigger parts this), this site will be taken down on October, 22nd. It's my decision and not some sort of take-down from Hasbro. I do it, because I don't support a game, that doesn't support its players. I will not sell the site, the domain, or my database, so please refrain from asking.
A big "Thank you very very much!!" to all the players, TOs and judges who submitted decklists and who supported this site during its time being.
Yours truly, EvilBernd.


And Weedmonkey's response on Mananation:

Quote:

Roo @ Magic-League 2 days ago
There are a couple of issues surrounding this, and they all revolve around the one significant issue of transparency. We know that Magic has undergone changes - cutting of a Pro Tour, culling Extended, this. This as far as I am aware is the first time in my memory that a change as significant as this one hasn't come with a justification. Everyone here has perfectly reasonable opinions regarding the issues with anchoring the WPN to stores. I myself have to drive at an absolute minimum three HOURS to my nearest store. I can't even become a judge because it's just not feasible for me to do a six hour drive just to attend an event. Without a reasonable explanation behind this, there can only be speculation as to why.

I feel that reactions such as deckcheck.net's is way over the top. Is taking away what is an excellent element of the community the correct sort of action to take when the company creating the game takes one away? I can understand if it's a sign of protest, but the far better course of action is for all everyone in the Magic universe - big and small - to combine their energies and tell Wizards that we are not impressed. We all love this game, and it's us who makes it or breaks it - not Wizards.

It's time for Wizards to become accountable for their actions.
Flag
25 people liked this


Sigh, all they fucking care about is money. They took D&D, and they fucked it up forever with 4th edition, made it like World of Warcraft: The Tabletop, and for what? Money. Now, they are attacking people who volunteer their time for the betterment of the Magic community, and for what? Fucking money.

Is money all anyone cares about anymore? What about the game Richard Garfield invented. Where's the love for that? Where's the love for the game that no matter how many times we quit, we still come back to like a meth addict relapsing for the umpteenth time.

So what in the world was wrong with DeckCheck? It was just organizing information that was already there. What was wrong with MagicDraftSim? It was just organizing information that was already there. (The gatherer has full pictures of the cards typically a few days before the set's pre-release)


Another thing I've noticed, for those of you who are fans of MtG on Facebook, any and all comments concerning the cost of Mythic Rares get deleted pretty quick. Hasbro does not care about the costumer, Hasbro is not TSR...(for those of you who remember the company that gave us AD&D).

All I play anymore, the only thing I can afford to play, is booster draft (which is still pretty damn expensive). I can't afford a constructed deck without playtesting it to death on the internet. I gotta be sure of my investment (which I refuse to do since you can't be competitive without good cards. Believe me, the cheapest you are gonna get is either gonna be Elves! for Vampires! in Type 2).

So, is this game still worth playing? I mean, if you're a kid (or adult) who still get supplied money from mommy and daddy, then I'm sure none of this affects you very much. But, for those of you in the real world like me, who live without a safety net (yeah, my mommy and daddy are dead, and they have been for the last 8 years), I have to ask, are you gonna still be playing this time next year?

I got to wondering when I saw that all the pre-releases and release tournaments were being held in hobby shops instead of event centers. In NC, there used to be a guy named Jim Baily who ran a company called Shuffle-Up Events that ran all the big tournaments in the state. My first competitive tournament was ran by him, GP Charlotte...extended format. Back when Ichorid and Dredge-A-Tog were running rampant, and everyone and their momma was running Affinity and Scepter-Chant.

I still remember the excitement. Getting my first DCI card, seeing judges in their gay-ass shirts milling about, walking around the Star City Games and Strike-Zone booths... I have a feeling I'm not gonna get to experience that again.


I woke up this morning to take a look at some decks...instead, I just got really depressed. Thanks a lot WotC, you're a humongous piece of shit.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wotc isnt closing down deckcheck, the big pre-releases are unaffected by the wpn changes.

people will still be playing, magic is more popular then ever right now. constructed isnt that expensive its mostly mythic rares that are, everything else is dirt cheap
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MrBury



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

" constructed isnt that expensive its mostly mythic rares that are, everything else is dirt cheap "


If you dont expend 400 dollars on jaces or 200 on titans then you r just not competitive enough. I remember when you could play U/G madness at low cost and crush everyone.
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LordLink



Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other day I saw a post by an angry store owner on SCG complaining about how online retailers like themselves were cutting prizes and driving local retailers to bankruptcy. Someone responded by saying that he should be fostering a bond with the local community and playerbase, thats the advantage of brick and mortar stores.

1. The WPN changes seem to be doing just that, helping local stores to create better communities. People harp on about the adverse affects but the goal is admirable.

2. What's wrong with pre-releases becoming smaller, more localised events? I don't understand why PTQ-size pre-releases are so much better than local store ones. We have a great time playing for 48 hours straight with friends and for the larger events we travel to PTQ's and the annual GP.

3. Maybe they delete comments on Mythics because they get endlessly trolled about it and want some real conversation for a change? besides, compare the price of your mono-G Eldrazi deck, flooded with Mythics, and compare it to the price of any top deck in any standard format ever (except maybe affinity). Magic is cheaper than it's ever been.

4. Wizards making "fucking money" is a sign that they're making the RIGHT damn choices and that more and more people are enjoying the game. If Magic was getting worse, fewer people would play it and they would make LESS money. See how that works?


Anyway, enough of a rant from me - queue the "you're stupid and ignorant" posts.
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LordLink



Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrBury wrote:
" constructed isnt that expensive its mostly mythic rares that are, everything else is dirt cheap "


If you dont expend 400 dollars on jaces or 200 on titans then you r just not competitive enough. I remember when you could play U/G madness at low cost and crush everyone.



I also remember when I needed to pay close to a thousand dollars for my MANABASE in Ravnica standard.

When the most expensive rare in the standard format is Fauna Shaman at about $5 you know somethings gone horribly right.

Sure individual mythics cost a lot but everything else has plummeted. This means that Competitive players are paying the same amount they always have (the prices even out pretty well between cheap rares and expensive mythics) and that casual players get to pay WAY less money to make more decks. Not being able to pick up Bitterblossoms or Tarmogoys cheaply for casual was always a pain. Now I can run Fauna Shaman, Goblin Guide, Manlands and the like without thinking twice.


EDIT: Reflecting Pools were $25 each, Bitterblossom was $20, Thoughtseize was $20, Cryptic Command was $20, Underground River, Scion of Oona and Mistbind Clique were about $5. that makes for way more money than a playset of Primeval Titans, some Summoning Traps and some manaramp. Or a playset of Jaces and whatever control deck.
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AppleofEris



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 553

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

- If you spent almost a thousand dollars on your Ravnica landbase, you're a complete idiot. Dual-lands, at their height, were 25 dollars, and they were the most expensive cards in the set. So if you were playing Zoo, which had the most expensive mana base of that format, you had about 400 dollars worth of lands. But see, the ironic thing about that is, back then, you could still build a budget deck for under a hundred dollars and be competitive. I challenge anyone to build a competitive deck for under a hundred dollars.

- Wizards is going where the money is, since they sell their products to hobby stores (their products being boosters, fat packs, starters, etc). With these big tournaments, most of the money is made from the vendors who set up there. All Wizards makes is the entry fee money and the side-event money, but that's not really the point at all. The fact is, Wizards doesn't give a shit about the game. Why do you think they came up with "super-secret rares"? It's just like in Yu-Gi-Oh...in fact, it might as well be Yu-Gi-Oh...we could call it...I dunno, Magic-e-Oh....whoa.... At any rate, they no longer build a set to be fun, they build a set to sell you overpriced pieces of cardboard. 75 bucks for a piece of cardboard???? C'mon people, these cards have no value other than the fact that there are limited in number. It's like if I took a poo, and a lot of people wanted to buy my poo, but I only have one poo, so I charge an outrageous price. Sure, the rules of supply and demand apply to my poo, but at the end of the day, you still bought shit. The same with Magic. One day, Magic will not exist anymore, and you investment will go bye-bye. WotC knows that, and they know that Magic doesn't have the same following it used to, so they're making all the money they can before it flops. Just look at what the did to D&D. They dumbed it down so more people will buy it. You don't even need a freaking DM anymore.

- As for the MtG Facebook: they don't care about actual conversation. That exists solely as a promotional device for Wizards. People complaining about Mythic Rares is bad business. See, Wizards doesn't want people intelligently building decks, testing them, then purchasing these decks by buying singles, they make more money off the dumb kids who buy booster pack after booster packing "looking for that one card they need to take their 5-color sliver/spider deck to the next level". If they cared about their players, they would listen to what the majority has to say, instead of censoring them on Facebook.

- If Wizards making money is a sign of the health of the game, then explain Yu-Gi-Oh.

- Brick and mortar stores are rip-offs. Everything is over-priced, but I'll pay the extra if the community is good. That being said, we're in the middle of tough economic times and the first thing to go is the entertainment budget. No matter how close nit your store is, when the recession hits, you're the first casualty. I've seen way too many comic stores go under in my time, and I've seen game shops do it in half the time. The gaming community is too fickle to substantiate a store unless it can operate in a broad geographic region, and now since the internet, it has even less hope. But it's not all depressing though, because comic stores that also run games will always pull through. The comics are the backbone of the business, providing the reliable income you need to run a shop, and the gaming is the icing on the cake, bringing you that extra money to upgrade the shop and live a pretty decent life if you get the right clientèle. I'm just worried that all this talk of making comics "online" will happen and then all the stores are gonna go under...and comics will suck.


So yeah, closing thought...constructed is for chumps who have way too much money or parents who can buy them things. But no matter what format you play, at the end of the day, you're still gonna lose to an Asian. D:
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You realize Hasbro (WotC is a subsidiary of Hasbro) is a stock company ?
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AppleofEris



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 553

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, which means it's ran by the elite of profiteering a-holes. Hence why they don't care about their product, only profit margins. This clashes with me because I could care less about the company, they could go under for all I care, the only thing I'm concerned with is the game and how it's been going downhill for the last few years.
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Magno-
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ZeMuppet:
- Prices are from magiccardmarket.eu
- Prices are take at 19-10-2010 at aprox. 18:00 (European Time)
- Prices are totals (Example: See Beyond is 0,02 a piece. So total is 0,0Cool

// Spells
4x Burst Lightning 0,08
4x See Beyond 0,08
4x Pyromancer Ascension 2,00
4x Preordain 0,08
4x Mana Leak 0,08
4x Lightning Bolt 0,80
4x Foresee 0,08
3x Into the Roil 0,08
2x Deprive 0,04
2x Jace Beleren 7,80
2x Call to Mind 0,04

// Lands
9x Island 0,18
7x Mountain 0,14
4x Scalding Tarn 34,00
3x Halimar Depths 0,06

Total Maindeck: €44,74

// Sideboard
4x Flashfreeze 0,08
4x Negate 0,08
3x Arc Trail 0,06
2x Frost Titan 15,00
1x Spell Pierce 0,04
1x Jace Beleren 3,90

Total Sideboard: €19,18

Total Deck: €63,92
Shipping is €1,00 per 15 cards (If you can buy all from 1 seller. Which should/could be possible)$
Then it's 5 euro for shipping, which makes €68,92. That is around 93,86 dollars.

Maybe you buy from more sellers, then you pay 10€ extra and you still only pay €78,92 for the deck. That makes around 108 dollars.

Though you could drop the Blue Titans and play Jar Jar Sphinx (Sphinx of Jwar Isle) and you just made your deck 14 euro's cheaper! (10 dollars)

There you go, a competive deck for under 100 dollars Smile
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TugaChampion



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pyromancer ascension was never competetive. It might be good for a tournament or 2 when people aren't expecting it but it will never be good enough once it's known.
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AppleofEris



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 553

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those commas are messing with my mind!!!!!!!!!!1

But that deck isn't really that bad. I bet there isn't a lot of hate floating around for it right now either....hm, actually there probably is since artifact hate is in... I'll put that in my list of "Decks That Could Possibly Be Competitive While Also Being Affordable".
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spudfuss2



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devastating red top 4ed this sites master tourny with no fetchlands and the most expensive card was kargan dragonlord which is 15 the deck is competitive and under 100 dollars.

http://www.magic-league.com/deck/64176/standard_t2.html#Devastating%20Red135619

Now zemuppet wheres the excuse for this deck?
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you cant afford it dont play, simple as that.

and how is yugioh not a healthy game? because you think its a little kids game?
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brimstone



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZeMuppet wrote:
- and they know that Magic doesn't have the same following it used to, so they're making all the money they can before it flops.


Magic is more popular now than it has ever been before.
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Jag4



Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
if you cant afford it dont play, simple as that.


Interesting points Gypsy,


Part of me things that tier one decks at constructed level in its most popular format (std) should be reasonably affordable, otherwise it will stop new players getting into the game and existing players will have to stop playing if they can't afford to play and take up cheaper TCG's/hobbies.


On the other hand, if droves of players did quit the game and new players didn't invest it should force Wizards to react in a positive way to the community, because if they only listen to making profit, like any business, then perhaps that is what's required.


Jag
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