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Mimic Vat



 
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Tritemio



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:13 pm    Post subject: Mimic Vat Reply with quote

i have Mimic Vat, i use the 3rd ability of Gideon Jura, if he die , can i imprint it?

Is the same with Celestial Colonnade?
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes
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Tel



Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't say so, it's a planeswalker being put into the gy, or a land so i'd say no trigger
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is a word missing on Mimic Vat. Since it says "...you may exile that card ", the first sentence of Mimic Vat should be "Whenever a nontoken creature card is put into a graveyard from the battlefield..."

with that in mind, I'm pretty sure you can't do that with Gideon or any mand-land[/i]
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Carnubak



Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you can exile the animated Gideon Jura upon him dying, because he's a creature at that time, as well as being a planeswalker. While the cards remains imprinted on the Mimic Vat, you can put a token into play that it's a non-animated copy of Gideon Jura.

These are the relevant rules, extracted from the Comprehensive Rules:

Comprehensive Rules wrote:
603.6d. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially because the object with the ability may no longer be on the battlefield, may have moved to a hand or library, or may no longer be controlled by the appropriate player. The game has to “look back in time” to determine if these abilities trigger. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward.


706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The “copiable values” are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, card type, subtype, supertype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by “as . . . enters the battlefield” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set characteristics, and by abilities that caused the object to be face down. Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.

Example: Chimeric Staff is an artifact that reads “X: Chimeric Staff becomes an X/X artifact creature until end of turn.” Clone is a creature that reads, “You may have Clone enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield.” After a Staff has become a 5/5 artifact creature, a Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of it. The Clone is an artifact, not a 5/5 artifact creature. (The copy has the Staff’s ability, however, and will become a creature if that ability is activated.)



Also,
Magx wrote:
I think there is a word missing on Mimic Vat. Since it says "...you may exile that card ", the first sentence of Mimic Vat should be "Whenever a nontoken creature card is put into a graveyard from the battlefield..."

with that in mind, I'm pretty sure you can't do that with Gideon or any mand-land[/i]


You are wrong here for two reasons. First, any "nontoken creature" is a card, since anything that's not a token (or a number of things that can only exist outside of the battlefield, like a copy of a spell, or an emblem) must be a card under current rules.
Second, the fact that it must be a card does not negate an animated Gideon Jura or Celestial Colonnade it's condition of being creature.
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Xerocious



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both can be imprinted.
You'll get a copy of the actual card.

Check http://mtgsalvation.com/1243-cranial-insertion-ooze-control.html for referrence.
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Rath



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, both cards can be imprinted.

It should be noted that imprinting Celestial Colonnade and using the ability will put the manland into play tapped. So, unless you're needing a landfall ability or want to exile the land, the effect is basically worthless.

Imprinting Gideon has its merits, though.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rath wrote:
Yes, both cards can be imprinted.

It should be noted that imprinting Celestial Colonnade and using the ability will put the manland into play tapped. So, unless you're needing a landfall ability or want to exile the land, the effect is basically worthless.

Imprinting Gideon has its merits, though.


u can bring in the collonade end of turn then untap with it
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Rath



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gypsy -- very true...thanks for correcting me
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@therorschach

If i understand you right, I think exactly the same way...
If you bring Gideon to play, he's a planeswalker, so you need the loyalty points to use it, and the same with Collonade, even if it was exiled as a creature, it enters in play like a tapped land on my point of view...

At least that's my interpretation of the rules...

Could some judge give the correct answer? if you really can imprint them, and if you can, how do they come into play, as planeswalker/land or as creatures?

Thanks,
cHaKaL_rbn
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either will trigger Mimic Vat and can be imprinted if it was a creature at the time it went to the graveyard. And the token Mimic Vat creates will enter the battlefield exactly the same as the card would have, except the token has haste. So neither will be a creature, Celestial Colonnade will be tapped, Gideon will have 6 loyalty, etc.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The token will have haste. That is does not do anything in its unanimated form doesn't matter. So if you turn it into a creature, it will be able to attack.
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