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Dread return's flashback, and others



 
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Atrum_X



Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:44 pm    Post subject: Dread return's flashback, and others Reply with quote

if you use dread's return flashback, can you target one of the sacrificed creatures?

the green creature who's name I do not remember from WWK says:
green mana does not empty at the end of phases and steps
but it DOES empty at the end of the turn does it not?

and I know it is not rulings related, but what was magic leage's server in MWSplay?
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Alphakiller



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as far as I know...

spell is declared
targets chosen
additional costs chosen if applical
costs are paid
spell is cast
spell put onto stack

so since targets are chosen before costs are paid, you cannot choose one of the creatures that were sacrificed

can anyone correct me if i'm wrong?
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DARKING
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct Alphakiller. Since you choose targets before you pay costs, you cannot target of the sacrificed creature for Dread's Return.

As for Omnath, Locus of Mana, your mana will not empty when the turns ends as long as you have him on the battlefield.
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alphakiller wrote:

spell is declared
targets chosen
additional costs chosen if applical
costs are paid
spell is cast
spell put onto stack


The order of your list is a little bit off, though your answer to the question asked is correct (choosing targets does come before paying costs)

The first thing that happens is the spell moves to the stack. Also, additional costs to be paid are chosen before targets are declared, since sometimes the choice to pay an additional cost (e.g. kicker on magma burst) can affect the number of targets chosen.

Quote:
the green creature who's name I do not remember from WWK says:
green mana does not empty at the end of phases and steps
but it DOES empty at the end of the turn does it not?


This should probably be in a separate thread, since no one is likely to find it here. Mana pools only empty when the turn ends because the turn ending happens to coincide with a step ending (the cleanup step). If for some reason the mana pool doesn't empty when the cleanup step ends, the mana will still be there when the next turn starts.
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asamodious



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea what clariax is trying to say about omanath. But mana pool does not empty, ever, as long as he stays on the battlefield. Every point of the game is a step or a phase, so there is no chance for it to empty.
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Thran_Golem



Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clariax is paraphrasing from the comprehensive rules. Part of rule 106.4 states that "Each player’s mana pool empties at the end of each step and phase." Nowhere in the comp rules does it specify that mana pools empty at the end of the turn.

However, as Clariax pointed out, every turn ends with the end of the cleanup step, and so mana pools normally empty as the turn ends (just not because the turn ends). Since mana pools only empty at the end of steps and phases, Omnath prevents mana pools from ever emptying.
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redcell



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey I'm glad I found this thread, just now I had a question concerning the flashback costs of dread return.
So maybe someone can give me the detailed secuence of actions in a spell - here: dread return, especially when paying the flashback.

As I understand it
1. The spell goes on the stack
2. Cost is paid (flashback cost - sac 3 creatures)
3. Targets are chosen
4. Spell resolves (cast)

so in order to counter it, or respond to it I could for instance kill one of the creatures to be sacrificed before step 2 (assuming the player flashbacking dread has only 3 creatures) and that would end the spell right? But if I wanted to counterspell it I can only do so before step 4 right?
This also applies to cabal therapy...
please correct me if I'm wrong.

cheers
-red.
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Thran_Golem



Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Comp Rule 601 describes casting a spell in great detail, but the short version is this:

1. Declare you are casting the spell
2. Choose any modes, targets, and alternate/additional costs for the spell
3. Determine the total cost for the spell, and pay it (you may activate mana abilities in order to do this)
4. The spell goes on the top of the stack
5. Each player, starting with the active player, gets priority and may cast instant-speed spells and activate abilities
6. After all spells and abilities above it resolve, the spell resolves

You CANNOT counter a spell by destroying something that is used in its cost, because the cost is paid before anyone can respond to the spell. The only opportunity for response happens between costs being paid and the spell resolving.
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redcell



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! you just made my day good sir!
So when playing dread return with bridges in graveyard I ALLWAYS get to put zombie tokens as a result of the flashback cost being paid!
nice!!! I still got lots to learn ;D
now my zombies are gonna eat your brainz

sincerely,
-red (not the zombies)
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