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Next Level Boros


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ejv



Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi, I am pretty confused; could you please explain what is the point of building a deck with a pool of cards which are not and will never actually be a format? Or more simply, why would you ever want to build a post-rotation deck, when you don't actually know the cards that will be part of the new format after the rotation takes place? It is a simple issue I am pretty aware of it, but I think you are just wasting your time, go do something useful.
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Branhamcat



Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ejv wrote:
hi, I am pretty confused; could you please explain what is the point of building a deck with a pool of cards which are not and will never actually be a format? Or more simply, why would you ever want to build a post-rotation deck, when you don't actually know the cards that will be part of the new format after the rotation takes place? It is a simple issue I am pretty aware of it, but I think you are just wasting your time, go do something useful.



And that is exactly why thinking is not your strong point....maybe you should consider Yu-Gi-Oh. From what I hear it is far more simple and requires far less thinking so you should be a pro.
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wdeister



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Branhamcat wrote:
ejv wrote:
hi, I am pretty confused; could you please explain what is the point of building a deck with a pool of cards which are not and will never actually be a format? Or more simply, why would you ever want to build a post-rotation deck, when you don't actually know the cards that will be part of the new format after the rotation takes place? It is a simple issue I am pretty aware of it, but I think you are just wasting your time, go do something useful.



And that is exactly why thinking is not your strong point....maybe you should consider Yu-Gi-Oh. From what I hear it is far more simple and requires far less thinking so you should be a pro.


So much for accepting constructive criticism.

He makes a valid point, building a post-rotation deck is an effort in futility. Especially if it's boros. A deck that survived as a niche deck because it had the potential to kill the most popular deck at the time (Jund) before it got online. You're looking at a field of decks that can not only disrupt your initial barrage (Ascension, Khalni Garden-decks) but actually stop it all together (U/W Control). So even if you're building it now, this is not a good deck. And if you're building it for a post-rotation, most of the decks that aren't Shards based decks (Naya, Bant and Jund) all survive with their key engines intact post-rotation, those are the decks which you have poor match-ups against.
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ejv



Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well I must prove you wrong branhamcat, I've played magic for almost 12 years, I've built a lot of rogue decks on my own with some success, played in nats, gp's and pt's so I guess I'm pretty ok at playing magic which is the second game I like best after chess. I assure you there is no point in trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, which is simply what the guy here is trying to do, he is imagining that there is this format (which doesn't really exist) and building a deck for it, totally useless. Also a bunch of cards will come out and change current decks and create new ones, therefore even his list (with less cards than the total amount which will be available) maybe totally wrong as better additions will be available. Plain simple.
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SpookyBurger



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ejv wrote:
I assure you there is no point in trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, which is simply what the guy here is trying to do, he is imagining that there is this format (which doesn't really exist) and building a deck for it, totally useless. Also a bunch of cards will come out and change current decks and create new ones, therefore even his list (with less cards than the total amount which will be available) maybe totally wrong as better additions will be available. Plain simple.


Isn't the point of building decks before the full spoiler is out to get a bit of a head start? You're totally right that the list will HAVE to be updated to be competitive, but aren't you still saving yourself some time by getting a rough list down? I dunno, to me it seems better to brainstorm up some potential lists then playing dead standard or not building a list.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Build a deck when you got all the cards in the format available. Try to make one that runs on its own (aka not a metagame deck) consisting of strong cards, or eventually a combo. Also try to avoid updates to a current deck, since that's not really creative.

If you manage to optimize that deck before the first major tournament, you got a head start on the other players. That requires from 10 to maybe 100 hours of serious testing, though, and that means your testing pool needs to foresee other possible tier 1 decks as well.

If you are not this serious, and do not have plenty of time and access to other good players doing the same, you will not manage to optimize anything worthwhile before the metagame has set.

This means that for most people, deck building begins when the "pro's" bring their decks to the table, since it takes a lot less time and effort to build metagame decks than being competitively inventive. And then you could as well netdeck...
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SpookyBurger



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vedrfolner wrote:
Build a deck when you got all the cards in the format available. Try to make one that runs on its own (aka not a metagame deck) consisting of strong cards, or eventually a combo. Also try to avoid updates to a current deck, since that's not really creative.

If you manage to optimize that deck before the first major tournament, you got a head start on the other players. That requires from 10 to maybe 100 hours of serious testing, though, and that means your testing pool needs to foresee other possible tier 1 decks as well.

If you are not this serious, and do not have plenty of time and access to other good players doing the same, you will not manage to optimize anything worthwhile before the metagame has set.

This means that for most people, deck building begins when the "pro's" bring their decks to the table, since it takes a lot less time and effort to build metagame decks than being competitively inventive. And then you could as well netdeck...


Definitely good advice for the upcoming States and Provincial tournaments. I don't quite get your aversion to updating a current deck, who care if it isn't creative. A good example is gonna be U/W Sun Titan, obviously Trinket Mage is gonna have some synergy in that list.

Also you seem to imply that you won't find a tier 1 deck before it's spoiled by the pro's, which I kinda doubt.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason I said not to update an existing deck is that then you won't be _ahead_ of the others... not that much at least.

And I said "pro's", indicating that only very good players build tier 1 decks. The pro's as in "the guys playing in GP's and Worlds" is as you say, of course not true.
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