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Discard post M11? Maybe...



 
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Subaru



Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:03 am    Post subject: Discard post M11? Maybe... Reply with quote

So I was tinkering with a list that's actually doing ok.

26 lands:
4 Creeping tar pit
2 Scalding Tarn/misty Rainforest
3 Marsh Flats/Verdant catacombs
3 Drowned Catacomb
6 Island
8 Swamp

8 Creatures
3 Liliana's Specter
3 Guul Draz Specter
2 Enclave Cryptologist

26 Spells
4 Liliana's Caress
2 Liliana Vess
3 Mind Rot
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Whiplash Trap
3 Sign in Blood
3 Mana Leak
2 Regress
2 Unsummon
3 Jace Beleren

Sideboard:
2 Leyline of the Void
4 Doom Blade
3 Ice Cage
2 Regress
1 Negate
2 Duress
1 Jace, the Mind sculptor

I played a few game ones. I realized that this deck's inclusion of the 8 creatures was good, because between bouncing and discard and stuff, the opponents were hard pressed to find answers. When the creatures did die, I actually had success using Tar Pits and Vess ultimates to gain a sick advantage.

Personal Notes:
Sign in blood is WAY more effective when used on them in the late game.
Jace Beleren fills up their hand and digs you cards.
Caress is NOT the key card, it helps you win faster, but that's all it is.
Whiplash Trap is borderline and gets sided out against Green Titan/D. Force decks without Grave Titan or Siege-Gangs.
Cryptologist is maindecked only to make sure you're getting what you need often.

Sideboard:
Ice Cage: Wastes Fauna Shaman.
Negate: D.Force decks. MAna leak is just bad against them since they have so much lands in play when they use it.
Blades: Fast tempo decks.
Regresses: The regresses in the main are there for trouble permanents, but when my opponent used Leyline of Sanctity, I realised that I wanted more ways to make them discard it.
Duress: Same reason as above and for the W/U control decks
Leyline: Vengevine
Jace 2.0: Well, hmm...Ok, admittedly, the game he did come down, it COULD have been small Jace, and I could have ended it with Caress out, but using the Fateseal ability is pretty bad for your opponent. And it's just Jace 2.0.

I think this deck is borderline atm, any suggestions? Game 1 is awesome, but board needs work.
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SidMeier



Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Brass
2 Gemstone Mine
3 Underground River
4 Underground Sea
16 lands
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Defense Grid
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mana Vault
1 Megrim
4 Memory Jar
4 Mox Diamond
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Tinker
4 Vampiric Tutor
2 Yawgmoth's Will
44 other spells
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SidMeier



Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Brass
2 Gemstone Mine
3 Underground River
4 Underground Sea
16 lands
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Defense Grid
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mana Vault
1 Megrim
4 Memory Jar
4 Mox Diamond
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Tinker
4 Vampiric Tutor
2 Yawgmoth's Will
44 other spells
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ha897



Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like the person before said, discard was and always will be bad. Espicially now, with baloths, vines, and ghast's roaming around.

But anyway, you pretty much have 2 choices going discard. R/B, or U/B. If you go R/B you win faster, but your prone to getting controlled easily. If you go U/B, youll win slower, but your prone to get punished for being slow. At the moment, I would say go U/B if you can deal with fauna shamans. If you can't, then definitly go r/b or dont play it at all, because if your oppponent gets a fauna shaman out, and you cant deal with it, then you will lose the game.

If you wana keep it, these are the suggestions I have:
MB:
-2 regress, +2 jace tms
SB:
-3 Ice cage, +2 leyline of the void, +1 mana leak
-2 regress, +2 duress
-1 negate, +1 mana leak

mana leak will help you against fast decks, by punishing either route they take
duress helps you against uw planeswalkers which will devour you whole
more jace tms if your opponent lets you use them
more leyline of the void to deal with fauna shaman vengevine

hope i helped
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Subaru



Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shards list gets outdated in a few months so no.
Legacy and vintage discard is a very very bad way to go because everything's too powerful and fast.
Jace 2.0 doesn't do anything to actually help me make them discard. Sure it's good and all, but the only reason I would have it is if I need to have more Jaces or I'm facing a control deck where bouncing permanents is plausible. However, I did start them over the unsumons, but Small Jace is just so much better for what this deck needs to do.
Negate is there to purely punish D.Force.
Regresses are a must, very few ways to deal with planeswalkers.
Ice Cage is there for fauna shaman, I already said so. It's just a good answer in general since you might want to blade some other creatures like Baneslayer or something.
Yes, with Baloths and and ghasts and Vines, I've even considered playing Leyline of the void as a two of main deck, but Fauna shaman and D.force is more of a presence.
I have been tinkering more and testing here and there and I've made some changes to the old deck.

Cuts MD:
1 Enclave Cryptologist
2 Whiplash Trap
1 Unsummon

Cuts SB:
2 Regress

Additions MD:
1 Regress
1 Mind Sludge/Marsh Casualties/Consume the Meek, just some good five mana spell. COULD possibly just go straight for a titan of some sort of have a Leyline here, I dunno.
2 Into the Roil

Additions SB:
1 Negate
1 Jace Beleren.

This deck is actually starting to perform against Shaman decks, since it's just a matter of making sure their Creatures in their hands are all in the graveyard and cutting their lands off from the deck. Jace 2 is powerful in this matchup, cutting them off of lands and Leylines come in and so do ice cages and blades. Boarding out is an issue, still working on the optimal stuff for that.
D.Force decks is 50/50, coming down to whether you've managed to stick a Vess or not. Negates are powerful here, stopping Force cold, So is Duress, for their mana ramp. 2 Doom blade is good here as well.
Valakut decks aren't so bad, just Doom Blades and Jaces in.
Turbo Titans, with Avengers and stuff, are just Doom Blades and Jace the Mind sculptor.

Remember though, this is for post shards season. And I think discard is the right metagame answer atm. Just me saying, but I dunno, it's working.
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Subaru



Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a poor guy.=(
No, actually, I have another problem with that shards list. Sure, all those cards are good and deal damage really quickly, but, when your opponent has nothing in hand, you lost. Blue solves that and makes every card in your deck work.
And yes, actually, at this point I am preparing for Scars of Mirrodin Standard.=P I don't think much will be added to my deck, that's why I built this frame. There are lots of sub-par cards and more sub-par cards will be added to deal with whatever Scars brings. Possibly some good cards will sneak into the deck, but atm, this is actually a fine set-up and I've been able to win with it at about 75% G1 and about 75% post board. It's actually ok and wins its matches.
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Subaru



Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, just realised, 2 negates suck, 2 flashfreezes rock atm.
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