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Oh, thy magic players, what will we ever do with you


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you dont understand my post please dont say im a retard. my point was that even if you hate netdecks and try to make an original deck, it will become netdecked if it is any good. and how is playing jund not a netdeck? wow u added 4 bloodghasts to it still makes it jund except u added shitty cards to it
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TacoMaster



Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you run a deck with a 3 card difference and claim to be original? Interesting. Magic is and has always been expected to have a metagame. i.e. - Multiple versions of similar decks. That's why we have sideboards.
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kumagmd



Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dude... magic didn't always have a 'metagame.' There was an era, a long time ago, when people all had their "own" decks, because they couldn't copy if off one another (the internet wasn't as accessible back then).

I agree that making your own deck DOES make you better (since you didn't just copy and paste stuff), but then again, there's a reason why people do that. Since it's (the netdecks) good, had been tested to be good, there's no reason for them not to play it, since it's good!

Unfortunately, there are no points for originality. Cool, unique decks get smiles, chuckles, and other various reactions (not all of them good) but they DO exist.Unfortunately, the moment they are tested as good, everyone else copies it (see Sovereigns - Conscription decks). Uniqueness only occurs because no one else has thought of it yet and -proved- their idea is good.

Bottomline, netdecks are, for now, the 'in' thing. Not totally original, somewhat brainless, but it's what a helluva lot of people do. The only thing we can do is either (1) become brainless and netdeck, too or (2) make our own brew, make it tournament worthy and win. Of course, if it does win, other people will copy it, haha.
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TacoMaster



Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol, building your own deck does not make you better. It takes a lot of skill to pick up a deck and tweak it to fit your playstyle, metagame, etc. Sure, some decks anyone can just pick up and win with, which is the shitty thing about any CCG. However, a lot of the subtle nuances of decks aren't just written down on a sticky note next to the deck. Properly piloting a deck, whether your own brew or a netdeck, is where the majority of the skill comes from.

Having pioneered (with Seu_Creyson[Majority of the Credit] and PV[Piloting it to victory]) UGW Wake (which eventually became THE Wake Deck when Decree came out), I know how much effort and time it takes to brew up a solid deck. It's more or less a once in a lifetime experience if it happens at all. I don't think having built a deck that became a major part of the metagame made me a better player... I think playing the deck better than a lot of the people I faced made me a better player. Yes, you do have an edge knowing exactly why and how each card made the cut, but with testing and play experience a good player will also decipher this information for themselves.

Originality is very tough in a competitive Magic Environment, especially in the extremely limited card pool of Standard. So, to show true skill, you have to make due with what you're given. Tweaking the Top Tier builds to fit your style and metagame, then playing the deck to the best of your ability is all you can really ask for.
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Dooby12



Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is HILARIOUS!

that is all
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CasualFriday



Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's trollin. So I think he REALYY wont be back.
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BandaBear



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol wow i totally guessed it.
This guy was just on Pat Chapins D
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OilSlick



Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love how the only threads that get responses are posted by a complete dumb ass sharing his dumb ass views
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Sigil



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xSNACKSx wrote:
You're fat.


GG?
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kumagmd



Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of years back, some idiot, who usually plays with blue-based decks (8 counterspells, the rest draws, 3 or 4 win conditions) brought some originality to his PT by bringing a unique deck - Wild Pair Slivers. It wasn't optimal, it wasn't proven a winner, it wasn't net decked. I do believe he top 8'd. His name was Wafo-Tapa.

Suboptimal decks are only suboptimal just as long as they haven't been "proven" winning decks. UG Polymorph was fun! It -was- suboptimal, it became better as smarter people changed it to survive the netdecks.

Now... to work on this freakin' Mass Polymorph combo (theoretically, it can get Iona, Progenitus, Realm Razer AND Emrakul into play all at the same time).
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Zeph



Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Look. There are Johnnies, Spikes, and Timmies.

For Johnnies fun is to express themselves through their decks. Usually that will mean to build and go against current (like with very unexpected combo i.e: decks that make an advantage out of a disadvantage: Phyrexian Dreadnought + Stifle Combo).

For Timmies fun is mostly to crush their opponents usually with big spells (whether creatures or not). Some of them like the social part and most of them love to tell a story: Hey dude! Last night I won with my Mono-Green Aggro using my 15/15 with trample, haste, and CMC 20 against that mono black just when I was at 5 life! It was so cool!.

For Johnnies the fun is the challenge, to prove something, usually the I'm better than you kind of stuff. And usually that means winning, and winning in any way they can.

In a competitive place you will only see Spikes and their variations (Spikes/Timmy, Spikes/ Johnny, Spikes/Timmy/ Johnny, or Spikes/Johnny/Timmy). M-L is a place like that.

2. There are things called archetypes. Everyone will fall sooner or later in those, no matter if playing competitively or not. OP obviously doesnt get anything about magic or is plainly trolling. Netdeck is a way to see archetypes you probably will end building anyways. Some guys with more of a Johnny-ish side in their Spike will break the chain of deckbuilding but that is less probable with the current T2.

Netdecking is not good nor bad. The problem is when the players or WotC decisions make the game just pure netdecking or just pure rogue-building.

Also, tweaking a deck to your preferences -as long as it implies good decisions- is not bad. OP, for example, netdecked with no use of brains at all, failed at tweaking his deck, and failed at piloting it. His 'argument' -if that pool of shit can be called that way- has no ground.

3. According to the description given by OP, his deck was suboptimal and his gameplay too. He doesnt manage phases and steps, which gives a player a huge advantage.

OP is blaming something that shouldn't be blamed. He should try to look what he did wrong and not what he thinks is wrong around him, unless he is pretty sure he doesnt have a biased opinion.


Last edited by Zeph on Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:47 pm; edited 14 times in total
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kumagmd wrote:
A couple of years back, some idiot, who usually plays with blue-based decks (8 counterspells, the rest draws, 3 or 4 win conditions) brought some originality to his PT by bringing a unique deck - Wild Pair Slivers. It wasn't optimal, it wasn't proven a winner, it wasn't net decked. I do believe he top 8'd. His name was Wafo-Tapa.

Suboptimal decks are only suboptimal just as long as they haven't been "proven" winning decks. UG Polymorph was fun! It -was- suboptimal, it became better as smarter people changed it to survive the netdecks.

Now... to work on this freakin' Mass Polymorph combo (theoretically, it can get Iona, Progenitus, Realm Razer AND Emrakul into play all at the same time).


that was a gp and not a pt, and wild pair slivers wasnt a unique deck it was known for a while it just wasnt a tier 1 deck
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Pins4Sins



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ILikeBananas wrote:
I have no problems with netdecking. There's only so much innovation that can go around. Every archetype has some kind of optimal build, with several slots which can be replaced depending on meta. There is no use complaining about netdecking. With the internet, it's very easy to arrive at (nearly) optimized decks.

And building a deck is only ever half the skill. Skill is also overrated. Your chance of winning is usually predetermined based on deck choice. If you play a bad deck, the odds are simply stacked against you before you even roll the die. Play skill is important but probably not as important as everyone's ego implies.

At the end of the day, you have to admit magic is like poker. You should play high cards and fold bad starting hands. Likewise in magic, if you want to win, play with optimized decks. You can be skilled but you still have to acknowledge that you can lose to anyone. Understanding this will make you a better player and also help you enjoy the game. Now quit bitching about losing to people you think are less skilled than you. You chose a suboptimal deck to begin with. That's lack of skill in itself if you were seriously trying to win.

If you want to have more fun, go find people to play casual games with.


I couldn't agree more with ILikeBananas, he just has similar views. Meanwhile ha897 you are a troll, trolling the bs-bridge, trollin about bs, do you expect us to care about you trollin the bs-bridge? Its magic, you don't like it, well go play something else and stay off Magic-League.

Magic - Get serious or die trying, I don't wanna hear crying.
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brimstone



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best forum post ever
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tourneyfags.

These children are on summer vacation and gaming is serious business. They care nothing for the game or sportsmanship, they only care to win.

In real life most of these people are actually decent opponents, until they are bragging about their wins or crying about their losses to their friends (their wins are always "crushed this scrub" and their losses are always "this scrub got lucky"). Listening to you kids talk at IRL tournaments reminds me of what douche I was when I was your age.

But, that's the nature of a child, to be childish.

You just have to rise above it. Punching children in the face is looked poorly upon in most societies.
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