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ExtendedPlus/OverExtended Banned List


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Do you think the format needs a banned list?
No banned list
18%
 18%  [ 6 ]
A small banlist of 1-4 cards
48%
 48%  [ 16 ]
A big banlist of more than 4 cards
18%
 18%  [ 6 ]
A giant banlist of more than 10 cards
15%
 15%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 33

Author Message
derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:07 pm    Post subject: ExtendedPlus/OverExtended Banned List Reply with quote

ExtendedPlus is a format of rising popularity on magic-league.
Rumors that the DCI will also introduce this format make it interesting for competitive players, too.

Definition (June 11th, 2010):
ExtendedPlus/Extended+/OverExtended
This format includes all sets and editions printed since Mercadian Masques (for editions that is 7th edition and up).
There are currently no banned cards in ExtendedPlus.

This poll gives you the chance to show your opinion on the issue.
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Terminus-Est
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think discussing a ban list is a bit premature. We've very little information on the format.

Similarly, making a permanent or near-permanent choice about the banlist is -extremely- premature.

Keep it open to change later, no matter what you decide.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think the cards banned in extended should be banned for sure, and maybe some of the cards that are banned in legacy if there is any
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ykpon
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imo skullclamp is the only card which should be banned. Format can't be healthy as long as you have to maindeck Plagues and Canonists to be able to win.
Gush somehow helps blue decks to restrain brokeness of Desire and Ritual by morphing Foil into FoW. Vial and especially Disciple seem to be fair as it's almost legacy. And though Top is a bit overpowered and boring, countertop engine is one more thing which is able to prevent this format from being combo-only.
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Mykrob56
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ykpon wrote:
Imo skullclamp is the only card which should be banned. Format can't be healthy as long as you have to maindeck Plagues and Canonists to be able to win.
Gush somehow helps blue decks to restrain brokeness of Desire and Ritual by morphing Foil into FoW. Vial and especially Disciple seem to be fair as it's almost legacy. And though Top is a bit overpowered and boring, countertop engine is one more thing which is able to prevent this format from being combo-only.


Couldn't agree more. There is a difference between format defining, and format warping.
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Weedmonkey



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 324

PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is what has been done for the last...month commador?

As for me, I think we only need the bare essentials initially (i.e. ban only what we know needs banning rather than perceive it).
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caesarthehun



Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if they don't run a banned list that includes skullclamp I'll put it in every deck in the format. No questions asked.
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Burton911



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imo their should definitly be a bannedlist for this format, cause otherwise there would be almost no difference to traditional Legacy.

But im not certain where to draw the line, the only card which belongs there for shure is Skullclamp. But even without clamp it would still just be Legacy light. Counterbalance for example, would be a good ban imo, cause that way Top could stay in the Format, and moreover it would seperate the format from 1.5 where CounterTop is the Standard.
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DarkPhobos91



Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there should be some "suspect tournament" to find out what cards should get banned..


there are plenty of cards that should be considered suspect:

Aether Vial
Dark Ritual
SkullClamp
Sensei's Diving Top
Rishada's Port
Disciple Of The Vault
Gush


Also many "suspect" cards could interact each other or mb they could give suspect on unbanned cards (which are banned/limited in T1/T1.5):

Dark Ritual + Gush + Mind's Desire

If u ban Mind's Desire for example maybe dark ritual (i still think that is overpowered) and gush (maybe this is not so imba in this format) could remain unbanned
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Almi



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the ban list should have the following:

Disciple of the Vault.
Sensei's Divining Top.
Skullclamp.
Aether Vial.

Nothing else.

Mind Desire's comb was legal in Extended, with Stifle and Canonist and tings like that is easily beatable. Dark Ritual could be in a suspect ladder, but... I think still could be playable without overwhelming power.
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Dev



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would rather ban counterbalance than the top itself. Banning top removes a card that would be very good in lots of decks, because it is broken in 1 deck. Not a single person will play counterbalance without top, might as well just get rid of counterbalance instead and leave a playable card behind.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dev wrote:
Would rather ban counterbalance than the top itself. Banning top removes a card that would be very good in lots of decks, because it is broken in 1 deck. Not a single person will play counterbalance without top, might as well just get rid of counterbalance instead and leave a playable card behind.

They banned Top not only because of this combo (it might even be ok in such a larger pool), they banned it because games with Top take forever.
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Initial thoughts are Clamp, Gush, Desire; on the verge with Desire. Clamp and Gush are about as ridiculous though in completely different decks. Countertop doesn't deserve banning; it went out of mode even in old Extended. It's a metagame choice, nothing more. Burning Wish is another option if trying to neuter Tendrils, but that seems slightly worse than just taking out Desire and forcing the weaker Storm engines.
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proxie404



Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eldariel wrote:
Initial thoughts are Clamp, Gush, Desire; on the verge with Desire. Clamp and Gush are about as ridiculous though in completely different decks. Countertop doesn't deserve banning; it went out of mode even in old Extended. It's a metagame choice, nothing more. Burning Wish is another option if trying to neuter Tendrils, but that seems slightly worse than just taking out Desire and forcing the weaker Storm engines.


weaker storm engines lmao NOT

imo ban list: skull (obv)
Sensei's Divining Top (any deck can play it )
Burning Wish (http://sales.starcitygames.com//carddisplay.php?product=40030 just in case you guys did not know how good is this card )
Disciple Of The Vault (if you played back in mirrodin you understand)
darkritual (autoban imo)
Mind's Desire( -__-)
Entomb (M11 reprint fling ......)


im sure i miss a couple but this should be a good stars
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

proxie404 wrote:
Sensei's Divining Top (any deck can play it )


Who cares? It provides non-blue library manipulation so non-blue control decks gain a lot, while blue gains little outside Countertop.

proxie404 wrote:
Burning Wish


Thing is, it's only broken as a Storm-enabler. Guess what, there's no restricted Yawgmoth's Will in this format. Unrestricted Burning Wish is fine as a toolbox tutor; it's only dangerous as a combo engine and the only such engine in the format is Mind's Desire so if you want to ban something, ban Desire.

proxie404 wrote:
Disciple Of The Vault


And if you've played Legacy, you'll understand it's not even very good with the power of artifact hate printed since and before Mirrodin. Affinity is going to need Disciple to even hope to be competitive.

proxie404 wrote:
Dark Ritual (autoban imo)


Autoban? Whuh? It's again, only broken as a combo enabler and while Ad Nauseam is legal, it's far inferior to other Storm in the format since Lotus Petal isn't legal making generating mana post-AN when casting it in due schedule very difficult.

In such a format, it's only fair in decks such as Suicide Black; indeed, they need Ritual if they want to compete and it's not probably even enough without Hymn.

proxie404 wrote:
Entomb


There's no playable reanimation outside Death in the format; one reanimation effect is not enough. The card is at worst an additional Dredge-enabler and a toolbox tutor - hardly broken.


No reason to ban cards for their effects in other formats since this is once again an unique cardpool where many of the reasons a card or another used to be broken do not exist. And honestly, you're not banning Gush? 'cause with Gush, blue aggro/control is just nuts.
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