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RoE Plainswalker: Gideon Jura


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magicalmatt



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

both of the spoiled cards from yesterday were sick.
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Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kienan wrote:
Baneslayer will get Negated as well.


orly?
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Kienan



Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonproject wrote:
Kienan wrote:
Baneslayer will get Negated as well.


orly?


Hehe. Oops. You know what I mean, though. It can still get countered was my point. Embarassed
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Alphakiller



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, on a completely unrelated note...

(insert name here) 3WW

prevent all damage that would be dealt to ~ during your turn.

during your opponent's turn, ~ cannot be the target of spells or abilities that must target creatures.

6/6

how good is this card?
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Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugenj22 wrote:
jonproject wrote:
bugenj22 wrote:
jonproject wrote:
bugenj22 wrote:
I am still hoping for some good instant creature kill, to get rid of manlands.


..Are you kidding me? There's too much instant removal in this format.


not when shards and m11 rotate out. we will lose path, and maybe O-ring, lightning bolt, I can keep on going. that leave journey to nowhere, and sorcery removal. It will slow the game down, and make manlands alot better, I think the u/b one might see play. you will be able to hit your opponent every turn with out worry of it dieing.


So what, did Wizards tell you they're gonna stop printing instant speed removal from here on out?


no, im just looking at the worst case. And Wizards has said right on there website, in the Eldrazi area, that they are looking to slow the game down, and that is the easiest way to do that, or just get ride of counterspells, instant removal, good one and two drops. there was a time like this, back in antiquities and ice age blocks, does anyone remember scaled wurm being a rare? I do. yes there was good cards, but the most of them never saw play, because they cost to much and did to little, or they were sorceries. That is fact, the game back then was very slow. I just hope it does not get back like that. I could stand the speed it was at during Urza's block.

Jeff


I think the speed in Urza's block was due to the fact that it was the single most broken block that will ever be released. Ever. Playing standard back then was just stupid. I reaally hope the game doesn't slow down that bad, but I honestly don't care anymore.

I just sold off my entire physical collection and I'm sticking to magic-league. Between the fact that I'm completely broke and the fact that all four constructed formats have been completely neutered of all fun thanks to Wizards extensively testing the formats before the cards are released, there's no reason for me to keep playing anymore.

Yeah, sure, they'll catch the boo-boo's in the process, but at the cost of what? Garbage formats like standard where they obviously handcrafted the major archetypes? And extended isn't much better, either.

You can't even test the living shit out of a format anymore, with the hopes of coming out the other end with a well-oiled rogue machine that can take down the format by attacking the metagame. You wanna beat Jund? Cool. You're gonna end up building a deck that will crumble to other decks, and still lose rather frequently to Jund in the process due to the dumb power of the deck.

Meh. That's probably the last rant I'll ever post about this game on here. I'm not getting invested in it anymore.
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Alphakiller



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonproject wrote:
bugenj22 wrote:
jonproject wrote:
bugenj22 wrote:
jonproject wrote:
bugenj22 wrote:
I am still hoping for some good instant creature kill, to get rid of manlands.


..Are you kidding me? There's too much instant removal in this format.


not when shards and m11 rotate out. we will lose path, and maybe O-ring, lightning bolt, I can keep on going. that leave journey to nowhere, and sorcery removal. It will slow the game down, and make manlands alot better, I think the u/b one might see play. you will be able to hit your opponent every turn with out worry of it dieing.


So what, did Wizards tell you they're gonna stop printing instant speed removal from here on out?


no, im just looking at the worst case. And Wizards has said right on there website, in the Eldrazi area, that they are looking to slow the game down, and that is the easiest way to do that, or just get ride of counterspells, instant removal, good one and two drops. there was a time like this, back in antiquities and ice age blocks, does anyone remember scaled wurm being a rare? I do. yes there was good cards, but the most of them never saw play, because they cost to much and did to little, or they were sorceries. That is fact, the game back then was very slow. I just hope it does not get back like that. I could stand the speed it was at during Urza's block.

Jeff


I think the speed in Urza's block was due to the fact that it was the single most broken block that will ever be released. Ever. Playing standard back then was just stupid. I reaally hope the game doesn't slow down that bad, but I honestly don't care anymore.

I just sold off my entire physical collection and I'm sticking to magic-league. Between the fact that I'm completely broke and the fact that all four constructed formats have been completely neutered of all fun thanks to Wizards extensively testing the formats before the cards are released, there's no reason for me to keep playing anymore.

Yeah, sure, they'll catch the boo-boo's in the process, but at the cost of what? Garbage formats like standard where they obviously handcrafted the major archetypes? And extended isn't much better, either.

You can't even test the living shit out of a format anymore, with the hopes of coming out the other end with a well-oiled rogue machine that can take down the format by attacking the metagame. You wanna beat Jund? Cool. You're gonna end up building a deck that will crumble to other decks, and still lose rather frequently to Jund in the process due to the dumb power of the deck.

Meh. That's probably the last rant I'll ever post about this game on here. I'm not getting invested in it anymore.


... you'd rather every set was completely untested, making it so that one single overlooked detail completely breaks the format and makes affinity look like grandma's tea party?
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AlexTrebek



Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A pretty much guaranteed 2 for 1, yep, terrible.
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Ansore



Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:24 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

I think it will play in a barriers deck.
first ability, all creatures are attacking him, barriers protect him,(or fog or angelsong) and then, destroy a creature, an then he may kill creatures/planeswalkers, be a finisher...it will be a very expansive card, I think
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TugaChampion



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alphakiller wrote:
TugaChampion wrote:
I don't knwo how to evaluate this guy. It could be good or it could be bad. It's that different from anything we've seen before. It's obviously good in limited but which planeswalker isn't? People are already overhyping it. Maybe it will live up to it. Or maybe it's just the next sharkan vol (which sadly I think it's better than the new sharkan) or abyssal persecutor (I won't say lotus cobra because it's actually seeing some play now).


think of it this way...

you play him, kill a creature on the same turn. a problem goes away and you're left with a planesalker. only nicol bolas and chaandra have had things like that, but one's too expensive and one just isn't up to snuff.

now you have a planeswalker and if you're doing it right, you have creatures to defend it with. your opponent doesn't want to swing into him because you'll just be able to prevent it, then kill yet another thing. that's pressure and a 2-for-1.

if your opponent doesnt swing, you have two options: force them to swing if it's favorable to you (always good), or swing into them with an undamageable fatty.

what's not to love?


Like I said: only testing will say if it's good or not. 5 mana planeswalkers haven't seen much play.
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spudfuss



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"5 mana planeswalkers haven't seen much play."

Thats probably because there are no good planeswalkers at 5cmc right now, only 2 are Liliana and Chandra both were sub par.
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Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alphakiller wrote:
jonproject wrote:
bugenj22 wrote:
jonproject wrote:
bugenj22 wrote:
jonproject wrote:
bugenj22 wrote:
I am still hoping for some good instant creature kill, to get rid of manlands.


..Are you kidding me? There's too much instant removal in this format.


not when shards and m11 rotate out. we will lose path, and maybe O-ring, lightning bolt, I can keep on going. that leave journey to nowhere, and sorcery removal. It will slow the game down, and make manlands alot better, I think the u/b one might see play. you will be able to hit your opponent every turn with out worry of it dieing.


So what, did Wizards tell you they're gonna stop printing instant speed removal from here on out?


no, im just looking at the worst case. And Wizards has said right on there website, in the Eldrazi area, that they are looking to slow the game down, and that is the easiest way to do that, or just get ride of counterspells, instant removal, good one and two drops. there was a time like this, back in antiquities and ice age blocks, does anyone remember scaled wurm being a rare? I do. yes there was good cards, but the most of them never saw play, because they cost to much and did to little, or they were sorceries. That is fact, the game back then was very slow. I just hope it does not get back like that. I could stand the speed it was at during Urza's block.

Jeff


I think the speed in Urza's block was due to the fact that it was the single most broken block that will ever be released. Ever. Playing standard back then was just stupid. I reaally hope the game doesn't slow down that bad, but I honestly don't care anymore.

I just sold off my entire physical collection and I'm sticking to magic-league. Between the fact that I'm completely broke and the fact that all four constructed formats have been completely neutered of all fun thanks to Wizards extensively testing the formats before the cards are released, there's no reason for me to keep playing anymore.

Yeah, sure, they'll catch the boo-boo's in the process, but at the cost of what? Garbage formats like standard where they obviously handcrafted the major archetypes? And extended isn't much better, either.

You can't even test the living shit out of a format anymore, with the hopes of coming out the other end with a well-oiled rogue machine that can take down the format by attacking the metagame. You wanna beat Jund? Cool. You're gonna end up building a deck that will crumble to other decks, and still lose rather frequently to Jund in the process due to the dumb power of the deck.

Meh. That's probably the last rant I'll ever post about this game on here. I'm not getting invested in it anymore.


... you'd rather every set was completely untested, making it so that one single overlooked detail completely breaks the format and makes affinity look like grandma's tea party?


I honestly don't know how the fuck you can print the cards they did from Mirrodin block and think "oh yeah, these are all fun and balanced cards", so I don't know what to say on that subject.

However, I miss playing moderately broken cards in my standard decks against other decks with moderately broken cards. It makes for fun formats with really interesting interactions.

I'm sick of playing the same decks in standard. I don't wanna play midrange decks with too good removal and creatures and I don't wanna play "answer everything" control decks with awful win conditions and I seriously don't wanna play awkward White-aggro variants anymore (unless it's WW, of course). Even Five Color Control was, at heart, just a deck with lots of removal/answers and awkward win-conditions (four maindeck Cruel Ultimatums? Cloudthresher???).

Everything is getting far too formulaic, from formats to set design to the cards themselves. That's when things are on the path to getting stale, imo.
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Alphakiller



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you think the designers even had 5cc in mind? or thought it was possible?

that points to the fact that they actually leave the design of the decks to the players, and just stick cards in colors that fit the cards.
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Eldar



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Rochester

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think people are underestimating how good Gideon actually CAN be not that he is there yet. So let us look at the benefits and disadvantages to him as long as he hits play.

Benefits:
1) Fogs combat for at least one turn
2) Kills any creature that has attacked you or been tapped by some ability (Barring those with vigilance, pro white, indestructibility)
3) 6/6 body for 5 mana with protection from burn spells
4) Kind of random but becomes a soldier to couple with any tribal effects
5) Functions in roles of all 3 major types (Fogs, kills things, and bashes, makes your opponents creatures attack)
6) Protects himself
7) Provides card advantage
Cool Begins at a very high 6 or 8 loyalty
9) Works very well with other planeswalkers
10) Ultimate can be used at any loyalty even 1
11) Doesn't have another Gideon yet to kill him
12) Allows for alpha strikes
13) First and second abilities work very well together
14) In a very good control color as he seems to be best in a control deck

Disadvantages:
1) Dies to instant speed creature removal when a 6/6
2) Requires targeting for removal (man bloodwitch is good)
3) Ultimate is kind of underwhelming
4) Costs 5 which is higher than most other planeswalkers.
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Alphakiller



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

remember also that he can smash into their face every turn with little to no fear of disadvantage.

In testings, I have never been unhappy to draw him... excepting the usual "not enough mana to play" or "would lose having drawn anything else anyway" situations.

even in an aggressive style deck, he provides methods to control the board, AND he's a beater when you don't need him.
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its an effective 3WW slot card that makes a white weenie deck an alternative to playing a baneslayer deck.

However, baneslayer is splashable with just about anything, this guy looks like he'd be best with just white.
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