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Red-Black deck wins help!!!


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Florasten



Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:19 pm    Post subject: Red-Black deck wins help!!! Reply with quote

Here is my current deck :

lands : 23
11 mountain
4 swamp
4 dragon skull summit
2 lavaclaw reaches
1 arid mesa
1 marsh flats

creatures : 19
4 goblin guide
4 hellspark elemental
4 hell's thunder
4 ball ligthning
3 plated geopede

spells : 18
4 lightning bolt
4 searing blaze
4 blightning
3 burst lightning
3 terminate

sideboard : 15
4 deathmark
3 earthquake
3 unstable footing
3 dragon's claw
2 banefire

So, I made Top 4 in march 09 T2 trial.
I want to play it for my national qualifier, I'll have to fight a lot of Jund, RDW and WW decks.
I've got a good match-up against all who doesn't play white.

Problem is my new idea : geopede isn't very usefull and I often side it. I thought about replace it with a 4th terminate and 2 earthquake and replace 2 eartquake in sb with a banefire (against UW control) and a burst (against RDW).
But I'm afraid of the lack of creatures on battlefield (especially against walls) and the decrease of my speeding rate.

So, is it a good idea? All advices are welcomed pls.
Thanks to all who will be able to help me and cya on battlefield
Razz
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Bantos86



Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 209

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Geopedes suck because you aren't running enough fetchlands. Either run more, or ditch the Geopedes.
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HujuVanikil



Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

needs mo persecutor
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asamodious



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yah, run 8 fetchlands or dont play geopode.

Personally, Instead of geopode (with the amount of fetchlands you have) I would run something like slavering nulls.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plated Geopede and Searing Blaze needs more fetchlands. In a deck with that many "burn" creatures, playing Searing Blaze is really a waste since you would always want to drop a land before you play it. You won't have the mana to do both until the 4th land drop.

I have tested Searing Blaze. It isn't good in constructed. It is an awful topdeck and a dead card in too many situations (shroud creatures, no creatures to target, not enough mana to play it + other stuff, no lands to drop/sac before you play it).

I also don't like the 4 swamps in this deck. Play one + 4 Summit and 4 Reaches. That should be enough black mana for Blightning, Terminate and Deathmark.

Your sideboard needs 4 Manabarbs. It is by far the most superior sideboard card for red/black against control and fog, so take out the Unstable Footings and one Banefire for them. Though they aren't as good in your deck as in decks with more permanent creatures, inevitability is on your side if you have taken 8-10 damage by the time you drop it. You would most likely be at 18-20 life then. Of course, UW having a turtle and a Wall of Denial in play utterly decimates you with or without *insert any card you can think of here*...
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Insom



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terminate and blightning don't belong in a burn deck. Searing blaze is amazing. Play earthquake main. Everything else has been said. Geos and blaze are worth getting fetches for.
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would cut the geopedes for the 4th burst lightning and 2 earthquakes.

When I played RDW I most often sided out the geopedes. With so few fetchlands you really don't want them in your deck anyway.

I'd also change the mana dude suggested "Play one + 4 Summit and 4 Reaches." I don't like 4 swamps in this deck either. The manlands would be terrific and they could be potentially huge. I would test out 4x arid mesa and no marsh flats.

Also, I like 4 mana barbs in the side.

Banefire is really good against a lot of decks (anything with blue basically). I like it far more than unstable footing.

Turbofog/Jacerator are basically gone from the format.
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ADiCiuS



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are having a hard time vs white use Goblin Outlander from conflux.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RB won the GP this weekend i suggest you look at that list for advice
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Florasten



Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First I'd like to thanks u all guys, I didn't expect so much good advices, thank you all, especially Vedrfolner and SJM.

So, this is the changes I made with yours advices :

Lands : 23
10 mountains
1 swamp
4 dragon skull summit
4 lavaclaw reaches
4 arid mesa

Creatures : 16
4 goblin guide
4 hellspark elemental
4 hell's thunder
4 ball lightning

Spells : 21
3 burst lightning
4 lightning bolt
4 searing blaze
4 blightning
3 terminate
3 earthquake

Sideboard : 15
1 burst lightning
4 deathmark
3 banefire
3 dragon's claw
4 manabarbs

So, I keep searing blaze which is a very usefull card (in my opinion) and I put 1 burst and 3 dragon's claw for mirror matches.

Was proud, glad and surprised to see that a similar deck won a GP (ty gypsy) but it makes me ask if I made the good choices.
What do you think of his version and mine? http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31746

I don't really like quenchable and ruinblaster, the fact he puts removals on sideboard and the 24 lands but they are surely good choices. I'll have maybe 4 fetches.
What's your opinion?
Thank you all for a last help (so closed to finish it) and cya!
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Insom



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

His version gets there more than yours.
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I am mad that I traded all of my Hell's Thunders away right now.

I thought RDW was dead with Kor Firewalker, but the splash of black has clearly kept it alive in the format.

RDW always crapped on Jund, so I am not surprised of the results of the GP top 8 where RDW basically trounced 3 straight Jund players. That's how it should be and testing confirms this.

I like his version, but I'm not sure I'd run 8 fetch lands after cutting all the geopedes. I'd probably start out testing with only 4 fetches. 0 swamps is probably legit, you have 8 sources of black mana and that's probably enough except against decks running spreading seas and such. I guess you might want the extra fetches for searing blaze, but I am not sure.

I like 3 earthquakes, earthquake is absolutely amazing against some decks.

The splash of black obviously gives you a bunch of good ways to deal with baneslayer, which was always a problem for RDW (running magma rift and chandra never impressed me).

Red Deck Wins always had a favorable match up against Jund. It also has a favorable match up against U/W control, which seems to be the second most hyped deck in the format. If it fares well against Boss Naya (which it probably doesn't, due to life gain and the fact that Boss Naya is much faster than Jund or U/W control) it would be a sure bet.

I have no idea why he ran doom blade in the side instead of terminate. Perhaps it was a nod to the fact that his burn spells can kill any black creature in the format except abyssal persecutor, and RDW would just burn the opponent out when facing an abyssal persecutor anyway. Oh, actually it's for Iona because they will choose red and you can still doom blade it. Then again you could also death mark it, so I'm not sure that reasoning holds water.

You probably don't need terminates main deck. If you win the die roll you should be able to easily steam roll through anyone game 1. You can hold a couple of burn spells back to clear out a late game baneslayer (late game here meaning turn 4 or 5).

I would start out testing his mana base (no swamps) but only 23 land total with only 4 fetch lands total. So 4 lavaclaw reaches, 4 dragonskull, 4 scalding tarn (or arid mesa), 11 mountains. I would also try replacing the 3 terminates with 2 quenchable flames and 1 burst lightning. I don't think you need terminate main deck. I don't think you want 8 fetchlands, but maybe you do. I would start with 4 and test from there.

I would need to test the goblin ruin blasters in common match ups to make a decision. I think he didn't run any dragon claws because he hoped to play nothing but Jund and control all day. RDW has fallen significantly in popularity. I still like 4 mana barbs and 3 banefires in the side and of course 4 death marks. Whether or not you need 2 terminates in the side is debatable. I'd say....possibly.
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Kami5909



Joined: 08 Sep 2008
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SJM wrote:
Well, I am mad that I traded all of my Hell's Thunders away right now.

I thought RDW was dead with Kor Firewalker, but the splash of black has clearly kept it alive in the format.

RDW always crapped on Jund, so I am not surprised of the results of the GP top 8 where RDW basically trounced 3 straight Jund players. That's how it should be and testing confirms this.

I like his version, but I'm not sure I'd run 8 fetch lands after cutting all the geopedes. I'd probably start out testing with only 4 fetches. 0 swamps is probably legit, you have 8 sources of black mana and that's probably enough except against decks running spreading seas and such. I guess you might want the extra fetches for searing blaze, but I am not sure.

I like 3 earthquakes, earthquake is absolutely amazing against some decks.

The splash of black obviously gives you a bunch of good ways to deal with baneslayer, which was always a problem for RDW (running magma rift and chandra never impressed me).

Red Deck Wins always had a favorable match up against Jund. It also has a favorable match up against U/W control, which seems to be the second most hyped deck in the format. If it fares well against Boss Naya (which it probably doesn't, due to life gain and the fact that Boss Naya is much faster than Jund or U/W control) it would be a sure bet.

I have no idea why he ran doom blade in the side instead of terminate. Perhaps it was a nod to the fact that his burn spells can kill any black creature in the format except abyssal persecutor, and RDW would just burn the opponent out when facing an abyssal persecutor anyway. Oh, actually it's for Iona because they will choose red and you can still doom blade it. Then again you could also death mark it, so I'm not sure that reasoning holds water.

You probably don't need terminates main deck. If you win the die roll you should be able to easily steam roll through anyone game 1. You can hold a couple of burn spells back to clear out a late game baneslayer (late game here meaning turn 4 or 5).

I would start out testing his mana base (no swamps) but only 23 land total with only 4 fetch lands total. So 4 lavaclaw reaches, 4 dragonskull, 4 scalding tarn (or arid mesa), 11 mountains. I would also try replacing the 3 terminates with 2 quenchable flames and 1 burst lightning. I don't think you need terminate main deck. I don't think you want 8 fetchlands, but maybe you do. I would start with 4 and test from there.

I would need to test the goblin ruin blasters in common match ups to make a decision. I think he didn't run any dragon claws because he hoped to play nothing but Jund and control all day. RDW has fallen significantly in popularity. I still like 4 mana barbs and 3 banefires in the side and of course 4 death marks. Whether or not you need 2 terminates in the side is debatable. I'd say....possibly.

Doom Blade is useful against Kor Firewalker while Terminate is not.
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Insom



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doom blade is far better than terminate. The case where you need to kill a firewalker comes up far more often then the cases where it would be marginally beneficial to kill a black creature instead of just throwing more damage to the dome (maybe noc). Being able to kill iona shouldn't come up too often but it is just another straw on the doom blade side. Blaze is a great addition from wwk and makes the naya matchup fairly close (still not great). The only reason to cut fetches would be to play peaks which is probably worth looking into. I've never understood the obsession with 4 mana lightning bolts. 4 manabarbs makes the control matchup a joke.
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yea, duh.

Sorry, that's a hurr durr moment on my part.
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