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Maelstrom Nexus Cascade aka 5c Cascade



 
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Mod_Counter



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:23 am    Post subject: Maelstrom Nexus Cascade aka 5c Cascade Reply with quote

I alwas was a big fan of 5cc back when Lorwyn was legal and I was working to build a good 5cc deck after Lorwyn rotated out and i never found a deck that satisfied me.

But now I think i got a pretty solid deck, I played like 20 games with it so far and went 3-1 on the trial yesterday with the untested version.

Here is the List:

// Lands (26)
4 [ALA] Jungle Shrine
4 [ALA] Savage Lands
4 [CFX] Rupture Spire
4 [ALA] Crumbling Necropolis
4 [ALA] Arcane Sanctum
4 [ALA] Seaside Citadel
1 [M10] Forest (1)
1 [M10] Swamp (1)

// Creatures (16)
4 [ARB] Bloodbraid Elf
3 [ARB] Enlisted Wurm
4 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
2 [ZEN] Sphinx of Jwar Isle
3 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk

// Spells (1Cool
4 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
3 [ARB] Maelstrom Nexus
3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 [M10] Lightning Bolt
4 [WWK] Explore

// Sideboard (15)
SB: 4 [M10] Great Sable Stag
SB: 2 [WWK] Perimeter Captain
SB: 4 [WWK] Rest for the Weary
SB: 2 [ZEN] Malakir Bloodwitch
SB: 1 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
SB: 2 [ARB] Terminate


Lands:
Its SLOW but you need all the Tri lands to have a consistent mana base, i tried it with less but you just have to be able to cast your spells despite survive some land destruction/spreading seas.
Im thinking about adding like 2 more dual man lands, let me know what you think about it.

Creatures:
Rhox War Monk and Vampire Nighthawk are both cheap, strong creatures with Lifelink, which is important since the deck is really slow.

Bloodbraid Elf and Enlisted Wurm explain themselves, good body with cascade.

Shinx of Jwar Isle is mainly to have something Jund cant remove after you play it, thats why there are no Baneslayer Angels in the Deck.
Its also nice to know what you cascade into, but thats just a fun extra =).

Spells:
Maelstrom Nexus is awesome! When it sticks you have card advantage over and over and multiple Nexus dont hurt you since multiple Cascades can be used multiple times with one spell.
I actually found it when i was checking the Maelstrom Pulse prizes and just searched for Maelstrom, i immidiatly wanted to build a deck around it. =)

Explore helps to speed your Deck up a bit in the first turns, it kinda sucks when you cascade into it but the extra speed is worth it and you still get to draw a card when you hit it with cascade, so its ok.

Jace is great with cascade spells, you can create insane cascade chains with him alone by stacking the cards you want to cascade into on the top. Yea and apart from that Jace is just a good card that is worth to be played.

Sideboard:
Perimeter Captain, Rest for the Weary and the fourth Nighthawk against RDW and Boros.

Terminate against Baneslayer Decks.

Great Sable Stag against Jund, Vamps and Control.

Bloodwitch against UW control and Baneslayer Decks.

You want to board explore out against other slow decks so you cascade into better spells.

Let me know what you think about it and have fun cascading =)
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think maybe choose the least important color and cut it nearly completely. I see that as being white right now, so maybe try and find something other than war monk and only use the white for the nexus.

I like trace abundance myself. It'll get you to where you're going and if you throw it on a man-land (if you add some) he gets "shroud" so it's pretty powerful.

I say cut rupture spire for right now. Its already slow enough.

Why not consolidate between sac lands and CipT lands? Like I mentioned, find a color you don't feel is as worthy as the other, cut it, take out a few of the lands that add it and go with more basics and sac lands. Terramorphic expanse and 1x of each basic seems like a good source, plus I think you want to be able to find what you need if they path a guy. Then you can go with rampant growth or borderland ranger as well...Hell, even the 3 1/1 flier guy who gets a basic seems playable.

I like it though. Card advantage is good.
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jordman2



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im sry but with spreading seas and mirage in everyones SB now and days this deck might get there game 1 but 2,3 they will just side them in and then your manabase is pretty much f'd unless you got things to answer to the spreading seas. i guess you might be able to play jwar isle but i dout that its going to win the whole game buy its self
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Bantos86



Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 209

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jordman2 wrote:
im sry but with spreading seas and mirage in everyones SB now and days this deck might get there game 1 but 2,3 they will just side them in and then your manabase is pretty much f'd unless you got things to answer to the spreading seas. i guess you might be able to play jwar isle but i dout that its going to win the whole game buy its self


I would like to see some examples of Seas & Mirage in "everyones SB", because I sure don't see it.
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Jbeanz



Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the idea of this deck, but after play testing several games I found two major flaws -

1) The mana base is fucked. Far... FAAAAR too many lands that come into play tapped. I can never count on drawing a land when i need it, because if I do.. it's coming into play tapped.

I strongly agree with P_P4E. It needs basics and sac lands. Terramorphic Expanse plus basic lands makes this deck SO much faster and more consistent.

I also want to test the deck with Noble Hierarch instead of explore. I like explore, but it just doesn't seem as strong as Hierarch still, especially mid to late game. Only testing will answer that question though.


2) Mono-black rapes it. Now, this may be just because I haven't quite figured out how to play against mono-black with it, but I have yet to come even close to beating mono-black in the four matches I've played against it.

Maybe Celestial Purge in the SB? It seems that it would get more use than the Rest for the Weary.


I also agree with P_P4E about cutting one color down to just being splashed. The deck is missing some key cards that I think would help it be more consistent, such as Path to Exile, Celestial Purge, Pikachu, more Terminates, ETC...

I'm thinking blue, but Jace, the Mind Sculptor is so crucial in this deck, or any deck it would seem for that matter, and costs double blue.

You don't really need both Rhox War Monk and Vampire Nighthawk. If you cut the monks for +1 Nighthawk, and +3 removal spell (Path to Exile would be best probably) I think it would fit the theme of what the deck is trying to do better than the Monks would. The monks just stall slightly early game, but the Hawks can do the same and deal with bigger threats latter game.

So I think if you were to cut the Monks out you could still hold down the three Jaces and replace them with something that will get the job done a bit better.

The SB needs work. Perimeter Captain is good in theory, but not so much in actual application. Most of the time it dies before he gets to block, and it almost never gets more than one block in. Anything you would side it in against will be able to burn it after it has taken one damage or more. I think its spot would be much better filled with Celestial Purge or two more Terminate. Both will come in just as often but will show better results. Not to mention Celestial Purge gets rid of a lot of other pesky things besides just creatures.

Again with Rest for the Weary. Good in theory, but it would be more effective to fill its spot with removal. Deal with the threat, instead of just trying to keep it from killing you. Considerably better of a strategy.

All in all though, the deck still holds it own even with those major flaws. I really think with some fine tuning you might be on to something here. If anything, it's fun as hell to play! haha...

Just my two cents, hopefully this helps you in creating this potentially tier-one deck! Smile




EDIT - Upon further testing against some aggro decks with my brother (Eldrazi Elves and Boros) we both agreed that it needs to run either Earthquake, Lavalanche, or Day of Judgement for mass removal.


Last edited by Jbeanz on Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:41 am; edited 2 times in total
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Jbeanz



Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bantos86 wrote:
jordman2 wrote:
im sry but with spreading seas and mirage in everyones SB now and days this deck might get there game 1 but 2,3 they will just side them in and then your manabase is pretty much f'd unless you got things to answer to the spreading seas. i guess you might be able to play jwar isle but i dout that its going to win the whole game buy its self


I would like to see some examples of Seas & Mirage in "everyones SB", because I sure don't see it.


Scruffy seconds.
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spudfuss



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a friend that build this deck right after reborn came out, it was amazingly powerful. His deck used evoke cards to play for cheap and cascade for their cmc. I would look and see if there are any traps that you could play for cheap that cascade for much more. I like inferno trap, as you could play it for 1 kill a guy and cascade into monk, plus it would allow you to take out lighting bolt which would improve your cascades. Other traps that you could actually play for their trap cost would be nemesis trap, good vs vamps and baneslayer, and whiplash trap.
I would also cut a couple of the tri lands for exotic orchid.
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Insom



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bantos86 wrote:
jordman2 wrote:
im sry but with spreading seas and mirage in everyones SB now and days this deck might get there game 1 but 2,3 they will just side them in and then your manabase is pretty much f'd unless you got things to answer to the spreading seas. i guess you might be able to play jwar isle but i dout that its going to win the whole game buy its self


I would like to see some examples of Seas & Mirage in "everyones SB", because I sure don't see it.


I've been playing tectonic or ruinblaster in almost all of my sbs. I don't play control though so I don't know about seas.
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Mod_Counter



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, thanks for your awesome input, I expected far more bashing =P

Something general before i respond to your posts seperately:

I agree with all you guys who say the manabase is kinda awful, but i tried to run a build with less tri lands and added basics and sac lands, but i just got raped by Ruinblasters, Acidic Slimes and Spreading Seas all the time.

But pls help me developing a both consistent and faster mana base, I was never good in building mana bases.

The problem with cutting one colour is that Maelstrom Nexus costs WUBRG and I like it too much to cut it. =)

@P_P4E:
Well, your comment is about the mana base(see above), I like the idea of cutting one color and only splash a fifth to play the Nexus. Would you build a version for me like you imagined it, because I dont think i would be able to do it right.

@Jbeanz: I again agree with the mana base, just post the version you would like to play and i will certainly test it. =)

I also agree with you by adding more Terminates and cutting Nighthawks, I changed it in my current build and after some more tests.

I did not have problems with mono B vamps, defeated one in the trial.

I also removed the perimeter Captains and Rest for the Wearys and replaced them as well with some Days of Judgement and Celestial Purges, very good additions and far better as the other stuff. =)

I personally dont like PtE in this deck, i prefer Terminate for various reasons.

Thank you a lot, you really help me to develop the deck =)

@spudfuss:
i dont think the traps are good enough and the exotic orchard is bad against most decks. But I will certainly give Nemesis Trap a try later, thx for your input.

Here is the current list:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands (26)
4 [ALA] Jungle Shrine
4 [ALA] Savage Lands
4 [CFX] Rupture Spire
4 [ALA] Crumbling Necropolis
4 [ALA] Arcane Sanctum
4 [ALA] Seaside Citadel
1 [ALA] Forest (1)
1 [DD2] Mountain (3)

// Creatures (13)
4 [ARB] Bloodbraid Elf
3 [ARB] Enlisted Wurm
4 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
2 [ZEN] Sphinx of Jwar Isle

// Spells (21)
4 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
3 [ARB] Maelstrom Nexus
3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 [M10] Lightning Bolt
4 [WWK] Explore
3 [ARB] Terminate

// Sideboard (15)
SB: 3 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
SB: 4 [M10] Great Sable Stag
SB: 2 [ARB] Thought Hemorrhage
SB: 3 [M10] Celestial Purge
SB: 3 [ZEN] Day of Judgment

Changes:
MD:
-3 Vampire Nighthawk +3 Terminate
-1 Swamp +1 Mountain
SB:
Changed a lot =)

Thx again and have fun cascading =)
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Insom



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much would kaleidostone kill your cascades?
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Jbeanz



Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played around with several different builds, but for some reason the deck files are locked and I can't open them with anything but MWS.

I can't even see them when I go to the folder they are in. This is rather weak.
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