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Anyone else feel like Worldwake sucks?


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks
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dAEdaL
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 14 Nov 2009
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How are these manlands more usable...
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Lynolf



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dAEdaL wrote:
How are these manlands more usable...


You obviously have no idea how to build Constructed decks, do you? Only someone that doesn't know that believes this man-lands aren't playable at least in T2... Confused
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ryuzaki



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nate666 wrote:
blightning ??


i said alara reborn......reading is tech
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Majik



Joined: 11 Nov 2009
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly I think wether a set is good or not is up to the player. I here a lot of people say Alara failed hard. I love the Alara block. But that's probably b/c I began competitve Magic with the release of Conflux last Febuary. So to me Alara is the best. I think WOTC has a fairly good grasp on what they are doing. Some cards suck, but they have to. Will this set be worth buying a booster box or two? Prolly not.


And ARB was pretty damn good, especially since it had ZERO Walkers.
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Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not trying to say manlands suck, I think they're very flavorful and powerful. However, every control deck has blockers. And unheard of amounts of great removal. Treetop Village used to kick my ass playing Quick n' Toast because, aside from Slaughter Pact and (later on) Condemn, you had nothing to say about it.

Now, if I'm playing control, Wall of Denial, Path to Exile, Lightning Bolt and Terminate make short work of manlands. I just don't see how manlands are going to start pushing fringe strategies that were cold to control back to the fore-front.
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Eldar



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Rochester

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This set seems fair. And the fact that most people are ignoring is that it is a small set and you cannot expect everything to be broken. They are simply printing a bunch of cards that are for the most part balanced with a few exceptions. The rares seem to be kind of sub par but some seem to be good and playable. They are trying to balance out the current standard with the printing of a few cards while allowing for some cards that require insight in deck making. Overall I don't think the set is fantastic and am kind of disappointed that I pre-ordered a box of it but what can you do.

Also let it be shown that I was right when I said that whenever they spoil a super good card right at the beginning (The new jace or nicol bolas are great examples) the set normally seems to suck.
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sets have been pretty bad from Lorwyn on, really. Zendikar was a pleasant surprise, but this isn't looking quite as good.


EDIT: Lynolf, no, people liked Ravnica/TSP, Kami/Rav, Kami/Mirr, Ons/Od, Inv/Od, Urza/Masq, Temp/Urza, Temp/Mirage... What people want is a format that doesn't fucking suck. The metagames have varied hugely over the years; it's been fun. Now though...well, last years have sucked metagame- and cardpool-wise.
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MotC



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The set is very weak competative constructed wise so far.

Also.. I enjoyed Kami/Rav more than Rav/TSP in my opinion.
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xSNACKSx wrote:
Not necessarily, Lorwyn was a pretty fun block. The tribes were pretty cool, champion was a pretty cool mechanic too as is landfall, but multikicker? Seems really bland. Don't confuse the annoyance of faeries and people's comments about wanting them gone with not liking lorwyn block.


I have yet to hear of anyone but a diehard Faerie-lover liking Lorwyn. It rehashed tribal in a yawnish way, made game midrange for everyone, made 5c decks par de course and overall, just blandized the format in a billion ways.
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's definitely a weak set. I'm glad because that means I don't have to buy any of it.

I think they went a little overboard with Zen so now they're toning it back a bit. This looks to be a much slower set for limited, as well. Lotta fliers tho.
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SoloRenegade



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marshalls ascension is a sleeper, I'm calling it! That card is the nuts in the right deck (aka my build)
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imtheguido



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engrishskill wrote:
The set has some good cards. It doesn't really do anything though. It reminds me of middle sets like Stronghold or Exodus where there is cool stuff that helps out existing archetypes but is largely filler.

Sure control gets some tools, but it doesn't actually really do anything special for the archetype as far as its core strategy goes: you remove permanents, have a few shitty counters(maybe) and hard to kill creatures. Yay. Every control deck is still going to feel similar to mono white, black or black and white control from odyssey/onslaught standard which were pretty fucking boring and had lax skill requirements compared to other control decks.

With how good and fast some decks in the format are, along with the appearance of duress in the core set, I was really hoping this was going to be the set that permission got at least a bit of a shot in the arm. Instead they have continued to keep it a means mediocre proactive removal for the most part.

If they were to bring back the old U/W style control deck with eight or more permission spells would be able to safely come back without wrecking the format imho. The only problem would be newly competitive players running into experienced control players and getting completely outplayed, which is why I think the R&D team has been hesitant to make good catch all counters in the last while.

At FNMs, I haven't seen a game where someone just got utterly blown out by a control player out-playing with actual control know-how(as opposed to general strategy with like slow-rolling someone with wrath effects) since Mirrodin/Kamigawa standard.

It's kind of sad that they have completely invalidated an entire skill set that some people have spent over ten years cultivating so new players can get competitive faster by turning shit sideways, general strategy that every competitve player should know and top decks instead. Alienating the people that have brought countless new customers into the game for the lose.

I used to play forty minute rounds in past standard environments, now I play thirty minute ones with my vampires and at about ten minutes or so on average are spent with my opponent in topdeck modes trying to pull bombs.

I do like that vampires get a bit more dynamic of a game with urge to feed and highborns as far as trickiness goes, but the game still has a long way to go as far as matches that make my brain hurt after...even from testing control on mws against friends, I don't get the super satisfying games that I am sweating in like I used to.

WotC has a pretty steady track record with slowing the game down or removing elements of the game temporarily to get things back to normal or make room for new stuff and then slowly bring it back. masques slowing the game down to make room for multicolour antics in Invasion is a good example of that.


You realize that they are out to make money. If every experienced player that played control like it used to be, and knew how to play it well, new players would show up to tournaments and get stomped repeatedly. They would then try to play control themselves, because its so awesome and beats them all the time.. Assuming that they could just throw a good net deck together and know how to play it well. And then give up when they realize its not as easy as they thought.

Younger players as they come into the game are impatient and lazy. They want instant gratification, so that is what WotC is giving them, because that's what they want, and they will be playing for years to come.

I went to a midnight pre-release last night, 120+ people and it was a blast. The limited format has changed so much with the introduction of WWK. Everyone loved it and it was a great time.
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Insom



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been widely publicized that WotC is less interested in insuring a balance between agro and control at higher levels and more interested in lessening the existence of draw go decks that they feel drive newer players away from the game. I am all for raising the learning curve but WotC is a business and as such sees things from a different perspective.
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engrishskill wrote:
words


Who needs skill when you can cast BSA and turn her sideways?

RDW giving you trouble? Don't worry, Kor Firewalker is here to save the day.

Limited is still fun and dynamic. Limited is the reason I continue to play the game competitively. Otherwise, I'd just do EDH.
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Standard is in "WoW" casual mode.

It's imply atrocious. You're right, guido, about control vs. aggro. I used to just pick up a random control deck and bring it to regionals and curb stomp all the random aggro.dec garbage. U/G upheaval one year, astral glide the next, etc. It was hilariously easy for a good player to beat an average player with an aggro deck.

These days, the game is just creatures and removal. Little to no card advantage. It's pretty terrible. Cascade exacerbates the problem by adding even more luck and randomness. Summoning trap is almost as bad. You might summoning trap and win the game immediately, or you might throw a noble hierarch into play.

Limited and EDH casual is the only reason to continue playing magic.
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